***SPOILERS*** Football 11th-13th Dec '10

[[J.D.C]]

Enjoyed the game last night. Thought it was exciting due to the intensity more than any real quality; which was lacking. The tackling from United was superb I thought at times. Fletcher needed to control himself however and really don't know why the Webb didn't book him for basically squaring up to him.

Cracking goal by Park. Thought it was just a lucky smack of his face at first.

Arsenal always looked dangerous in the middle with their passing but in the final third it was dreadfully lacking.

In the end, I think it was a justified result in all honesty. United showed more in the final third and really should have won the game more comfortable with Nani's effort over the bar and Rooney's penalty miss.

Arsenal need better players up front. Simple as that.

 

[Greenlizard0]

Re: wingers.

Totally agree, I've said this for ages. The stupid 451 formation we play means the only people that cross into the box are Clichy and Sagna, i.e. our LB/RB. That...doesn't make any sense especially since we invested in another tall target man in the summer. Our wingers aren't natural crosses of the ball: Theo's not that type of wideman; Arshavin seemingly can't hit the ball far anyway; Nasri often floats too centrally and Rosicky used to be able to cross, and does little else he used to be able to do.

We're a very attacking side and create the same chances as everybody else, probably in greater numbers. At the end of the day if we score few headed goals etc., then some has to fall on the guys in the middle.

 

[G|mp]

Arsenal need better players up front. Simple as that.

They will be fine once they have a fully fit Van Persie and Fabregas back.

 

[[J.D.C]]

They will be fine once they have a fully fit Van Persie and Fabregas back.

They need more than them two to win the title in my book.

They'll be a better team obviously but not a hugely better side.

Van Persie will be injured again more than likely within his first few months back.

 

[jakeke]

They need more than them two to win the title in my book.

They'll be a better team obviously but not a hugely better side.

Van Persie will be injured again more than likely within his first few months back.

I think you underestimate how good and how effective a fit and firing Fabregas is to Arsenal, Arsenal with him fit is an entirely different team who play a different way and are much, much more effective attacking wise. He really does change everything by just being on the pitch (probably because every team tries to mark him with 2 or 3 men and often fail anyway)

As Gimp said, there's not only Cesc and Van Persie, with those two fit, there's also Arshavin and Nasri (who both improve significantly when linking up with Cesc too.) There aren't really that many squad's with better attacking options than Arsenal.

 

[G|mp]

They need more than them two to win the title in my book.

They'll be a better team obviously but not a hugely better side.

Van Persie will be injured again more than likely within his first few months back.

Well they don't just have those two do they.

A fully fit Van Persie, Chamakh and Fabregas behind them.

Chamakh seems to know where the goal is and Fabregas pulls the strings, if they lost Fabregas then I could see your point.

 

[atpbx]

Nani is a poor mans Ronaldo, Valencia is a poor mans Nani.

Nani is more of a goal threat, he is more creative, can do a job on the left (where he is better than valencia is on the right) can use both feet and on is game is quite the finisher.

Valencia can knock a ball past a player, float the odd cross in, and can kick the ball very hard.
He isnt half the player Nani is and never will be.

As for Anderson having a good game, I believe someone not far from here was saying give him time and games and he will step up.

Both him and Nani have been given raw deals by Fergie in their time, and now he is playing them consistently they are performing.

Who would have thought it?

 

[[J.D.C]]

I think you underestimate how good and how effective a fit and firing Fabregas is to Arsenal, Arsenal with him fit is an entirely different team who play a different way and are much, much more effective attacking wise. He really does change everything by just being on the pitch (probably because every team tries to mark him with 2 or 3 men and often fail anyway)

As Gimp said, there's not only Cesc and Van Persie, with those two fit, there's also Arshavin and Nasri (who both improve significantly when linking up with Cesc too.) There aren't really that many squad's with better attacking options than Arsenal.

In contrast. I think you're overestimating how good those players are.

 

[FrankJH]

Rubbish, if a player passes to a team mate on the half way line and then that player runs the remainder of the pitch an puts it in the back of the net would the player who passes it to him to begin with not be given the assist?

Not all assists are as simple as a cross from wide onto someone's head who puts it in the back of the net. It was Nani's cross which albeit was deflected that setup the chance for Park to score, had Nani not crossed it then Park wouldn't of headed it simples!

Thats not relevant at all - there is no crucial touch by the opposition in the mean time

The massive deflection it got is why not

If it had been a shot instead, and got the same deflection to go in, it would have counted as an og

Ronaldo & Messi apart who should United have on the right then? For all of his consistency with the quality of his crosses Valencia doesn't have the match winning ability that Nani has for example the goal Nani scored against Spurs last season when he chipped the keeper, Valencia would never score a goal like that.

Maybe not - Valencia has had some pretty decent goals already though, and a lot of the assists for Rooney's goal run last season were down to him also (in his first season with Utd)

Valencia also wouldnt have tried to steal Ronaldo's wonder goal for Portugal either (and make a total hash of it in the process) - Nani is incredibly selfish at times

That was at a neutral ground also

I wouldnt mind seeing us in 4-4-2 at the Bridge, I just dont think its likely

everyone misses a penalty now and again.

drogba for example the other day.

fyi I believe its 4 missed pens out of the last 9 for Rooney (at Utd) - that was in the paper today so Im not sure if thats accurate (edit.... admittedly that probably includes saves)

Drogba's was a save wasnt it - not a complete and utter miss?

fyi 2 I think the paper also said that 1/3 of all EPL penalties this season so far have been missed/saved - which is higher than last season

Nani is a poor mans Ronaldo, Valencia is a poor mans Nani.

Dont know how uyou can come up with the latter - as in his first season he practically matched him for goals (albeit with a few more appearances)

Rooney himself has stated Valencia was a huge reason why he got so many goals last season

 

[Bucket]

Good point there above about Valencia & Rooney ^

Seemed to be scoring a lot more freely with his head when Valencia was sticking crosses in, although I'm sure someone will go off and find the stats etc now..

 

[drunkenmaster]

Nani is a poor mans Ronaldo, Valencia is a poor mans Nani.

Nani is more of a goal threat, he is more creative, can do a job on the left (where he is better than valencia is on the right) can use both feet and on is game is quite the finisher.

Valencia can knock a ball past a player, float the odd cross in, and can kick the ball very hard.
He isnt half the player Nani is and never will be.

As for Anderson having a good game, I believe someone not far from here was saying give him time and games and he will step up.

Both him and Nani have been given raw deals by Fergie in their time, and now he is playing them consistently they are performing.

Who would have thought it?

Anderson's performing? He had a "great" game against a team that literally wasn't there in midfield, in Blackburn, Anderson was raped for want of a better term, by none other than Johnathon Spector..... who had trained in midfield for all of 3 days in the past several years. Yeah, Anderson was truly epic then.

Since then you've drawn to Valencia at home, yes he got the goal but didn't look impressive, and with the entire team played like crap against a truly ridiculously poor Arsenal.

AT home Utd managed to, lose more tackles with a worse tackle completion percentage, pass 100 times less(give or take) with a worse pass completion percentage, gave away the ball more than Arsenal, with 25 of their passes intercepted vs 11 of Arsenals. I fail to see how a fairly lucky goal and a missed penalty, neither of which involved Anderson, shows how great he was, nor was their epic passing or tackling from Anderson to control the game.



Lol at whoever said Arsenal looked dangerous in their midfield passing but nothing upfront. How do you even look dangerous passing in midfield, especially when they were SO slow getting forwards and never really once had a proper counter attack against UTD in the whole game, something I'll point out that 6 years ago was our bread and butter with Henry/Pires/Freddie/everyone else over the years.

As for Utd the tackling was superb and it was a great match due to intensity?

were we watching the same game? Firstly Utd won a single tackle more than Arsenal while losing more tackles. Secondly, intensity is the very last word I'd use to describe Arsenal's performance. Thirdly Utd's attack consisted of 40% give the ball to Nani, he runs at clichy and loses the ball, 40% long ball to Rooney, who did nothing with it, and 10% Arsenal screwing up giving UTD the ball somewhere stupid and Utd doing nothing with it.

 

[jakeke]

In contrast. I think you're overestimating how good those players are.

Out of interest, how much of Arsenal do you get to see? I watch every game and the difference between an average performance with Fabregas to one without him is vast, much too vast in my eyes. You do know he got 19 goals and 19 assists in just over half a season last year? He's integral to Arsenal and the team is built around him.

Fabregas is head and shoulders above anybody else at the club and I'm convinced that in a few years he'll be the finest midfielder in the world. The rate at which he learns and improves is staggering. How somebody can start out so good at 17/18, yet get better at the rate he does, is unnatural

I implore you to watch his highlights vs Braga (the last game he was fit for). The best performance from any Arsenal player all season, apart from possibly his performance vs Blackpool a few weeks earlier. Arsenal miss him massively.

 

[drunkenmaster]

In contrast. I think you're overestimating how good those players are.

No, RVP and Cesc are absolute quality, however he is overestimating how effective they are at making Song and the rest play well, which, they can't. Cesc and RVP would have played in VERY similar sides in previous seasons that still got battered by the top 4 repeatedly, this season there COULD be a difference as Chelsea and UTD are the worst they've been for years and years.

THe problem is, Arsenal always make those excuses, when Fabregas and RVP played and both had their best seasons in terms of goals and games RVP played before getting injured, we still lost, and then the excuse was, well Eduardo and X and Y and Z are injured, it was true, but they wouldn't have actually played.

When we've had our first team 11 on the pitch, we've still been destroyed by Chelsea and Utd for years now. They are fantastic, and they can be the difference between 3-2 win for West Brom, and a 7-0 win for us in the same type of game. But we've seen time and time again, how good they are is completely ofset by how bad some of our other players are.

Cesc and RVP are coming close to being the ONLY players I wouldn't replace these days, thats not strictly true or fair, but every season we lose another good player and replace them with another 2 crap players and last night, there were VERY few players on the pitch who would even have been at the club in the invincibles year(and previously) let alone in the reserves or on the bench.

 

[Shamikebab]

urgh DM.

 

[atpbx]

Dont know how uyou can come up with the latter - as in his first season he practically matched him for goals (albeit with a few more appearances)

Yeah, Nani is a right winger, who was being played on the left.
He was also being bombed out the team left right and center because he isnt very good on the left.
Valencia, playing in his favoured position, didnt score as many, and got around about the same number of assists as Nani if I remember rightly.

 

[atpbx]

Anderson's performing? He had a "great" game against a team that literally wasn't there in midfield, in Blackburn, Anderson was raped for want of a better term, by none other than Johnathon Spector..... who had trained in midfield for all of 3 days in the past several years. Yeah, Anderson was truly epic then.

Since then you've drawn to Valencia at home, yes he got the goal but didn't look impressive, and with the entire team played like crap against a truly ridiculously poor Arsenal.

AT home Utd managed to, lose more tackles with a worse tackle completion percentage, pass 100 times less(give or take) with a worse pass completion percentage, gave away the ball more than Arsenal, with 25 of their passes intercepted vs 11 of Arsenals. I fail to see how a fairly lucky goal and a missed penalty, neither of which involved Anderson, shows how great he was, nor was their epic passing or tackling from Anderson to control the game.



Lol at whoever said Arsenal looked dangerous in their midfield passing but nothing upfront. How do you even look dangerous passing in midfield, especially when they were SO slow getting forwards and never really once had a proper counter attack against UTD in the whole game, something I'll point out that 6 years ago was our bread and butter with Henry/Pires/Freddie/everyone else over the years.

As for Utd the tackling was superb and it was a great match due to intensity?

were we watching the same game? Firstly Utd won a single tackle more than Arsenal while losing more tackles. Secondly, intensity is the very last word I'd use to describe Arsenal's performance. Thirdly Utd's attack consisted of 40% give the ball to Nani, he runs at clichy and loses the ball, 40% long ball to Rooney, who did nothing with it, and 10% Arsenal screwing up giving UTD the ball somewhere stupid and Utd doing nothing with it.

Yeah you lost, one nil.

Anderson gets rave reports in most media outlets, A certain poster doesnt understand tactics such as "conceeding ground" and "not over extending yourself" in a match against a title rival you are currently winning.
Thats some of the tactical nouse you want Wenger to have, is it not?

My crap team is less crap than yours, you were beaten by a side which contained the midfield powerhouses of Carrick (cant pass wont pass forward) Darren "Headless Chicken fletcher" and Luis "Tell me how you play this game again" Oliveira.

Nothing you can say is going to change it

 

[Weebull]

urgh DM.

 

[Bucket]

urgh DM.

 

[G|mp]

Don't you have him on ignore, he must have been on my list for a good 18 months now.

I found myself getting wound up when he was talking about Arsenal ffs, it was time for him to go.

 

[Bucket]

Don't you have him on ignore, he must have been on my list for a good 18 months now.

I found myself getting wound up when he was talking about Arsenal ffs, it was time for him to go.

I'm tempted to just put everyone that creates big walls of text on ignore really.