I don't think most on here could when you consider how often they post on the OCUK forums.
From what I recall reading, train drivers aren't allowed to use any devices and need 100% concentration at all times.
Spring Budget 2023
- Thread starter doodah
- Start date
I don't think most on here could when you consider how often they post on the OCUK forums.
From what I recall reading, train drivers aren't allowed to use any devices and need 100% concentration at all times.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 5 Jun 2003
- Posts
- 91,549
- Location
- Falling...
I don't think most on here could when you consider how often they post on the OCUK forums.
From what I recall reading, train drivers aren't allowed to use any devices and need 100% concentration at all times.
Yep. Even on semi autonomous systems. It's quite draining and not particularly fun. Although I have ridden in the loco of a few trains in service before you can't really chat as there is quite a lot of activity in the cab.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 14 Jul 2005
- Posts
- 9,104
- Location
- Birmingham
Isn't this where the circularity problem comes in though?
If raising middle ground pay is the solution to maintain wage differentials between job 'tiers', then that surely erodes the purpose of the NMW, because the very reason for poverty is income differential in the first place.
In other words:
*gap between low and middle pay is too big and cost of living is unaffordable for lower earners.
*NMW is raised to compensate
*Now there is smaller differential, so middle earners don't feel valued for the job they do or education they attained, compared to the now higher lower end wage earners
*Middle earner pay is raised to compensate
*Meaning we're back to square one on wage disparity, and the NMW needs raising again.
Yes my way of explaining my point was terrible. I'm sorry for belittling certain jobs, which are essential jobs in society. I don't begrudge people earning enough to live on, the problem we have is cost of living is too high. This is driving up basic costs which in turn is driving up state subsidy and is unsustainable in my view. Raising wages to compensate raises the wage divide as shown above and perpetuates the issue.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 25 Nov 2007
- Posts
- 5,581
- Location
- London
Yes you can reduce staff, not eliminate them, its not a simple matter of moving pallets around, whatever robot they have must have a similar dexterity to humans, and mobility, and speed. It can be done, but its extremely expensive, paying humans is cheaper.
It is also massively capital intensive, you need to refurbish every single shop, warehouse etc with that in mind, along with having these robots.
In comparison, things that are done on the computer can scale, once the AI can do that job perfectly, then you can literally make everyone in that job redundant in a matter of weeks, the only thing you need would be more processing power.
Its much harder for a human to go and learn how to program, or be an accountant, or work 10 years at a firm and be a manager there, sure, compared to getting a job stacking shelves, or working as a laborer on a building site. This is not true for an AI system, its what very few people really understand.
It is about 55k for 36 hours (over 4 days). Higher in London.
With voluntary overtime drivers can earn over 70k.
They also do overtime in days, not hours. It is dangerous to extend hours in a day.
Salary: Train Driver in London, UK 2023
The average salary for a Train Driver is £62,559 per year in London, UK. Click here to see the total pay, recent salaries shared and more!
Last edited:
That makes no mention of hours worked.It is about 55k for 36 hours (over 4 days). Higher in London.
With voluntary overtime drivers can earn over 70k.
They also do overtime in days, not hours. It is dangerous to extend hours in a day.
Salary: Train Driver in London, UK 2023
The average salary for a Train Driver is £62,559 per year in London, UK. Click here to see the total pay, recent salaries shared and more!www.glassdoor.co.uk
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 5 Jun 2003
- Posts
- 91,549
- Location
- Falling...
How much do we trust the OBR's figures about getting down to sub 3% inflation?
Also do we believe that the changes to CPI will actually be reflected in people's buying power?
Will we ever (and do we want to) return to low inflation and higher interest rates? Those are great for savings but then tough for things like loans....
What would the "magic wand" moment be purely from an economic standpoint? I don't think we'll ever get back to low cost high value living.
Also do we believe that the changes to CPI will actually be reflected in people's buying power?
Will we ever (and do we want to) return to low inflation and higher interest rates? Those are great for savings but then tough for things like loans....
What would the "magic wand" moment be purely from an economic standpoint? I don't think we'll ever get back to low cost high value living.
The BoE target is 2% or less inflation. That with a steady 3% bank rate would do for me as an ideal.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 5 Jun 2003
- Posts
- 91,549
- Location
- Falling...
That's what I believe - but it's been such a long time and the world has changed so much it was more of a question do we think we can get back there?
Soldato
- Joined
- 22 Jul 2014
- Posts
- 3,900
- Location
- Oxon
The problem with low interest rates is that it has resulted in a lot of capital being put to unproductive uses, or no use at all so there will need to be pain to undo that. Job losses, bankruptcies, etc.
Basically the last 13 years need to be undone in the UK.
Basically the last 13 years need to be undone in the UK.
Last edited:
I've already told you. You expect someone to screenshot a contract?
You've been given very detailed info. If you want to disbelieve that train drivers who are heavily unionised, work only 36 hours (4 days) for their relatively high base salary, then go ahead. You aren't getting more info than what has been given.
You are seriously deluded they are working 56 hours for their base salary. These are train drivers, you don't push them till they start crashing trains.
Last edited:
Examples?
You expect me to take the word of some rando on a forum? No i don't expect you to post a screenshot of a contract, i expect you to be capable of providing some, any, evidence of how many hours they have to work for your 50, 60, or is it 70k a year now, claim.
I don't not believe they don't work more than 36 hours, I'm simply asking you to provide some sort of evidence for how many hours they have to work to earn what you claimed they earn. The fact you're throwing your toys out the pram seems to suggest you don't know and that's fine but IIRC you said they earned something like £60k for a 36hr working week but that seems to be untrue.
e: Nope, having checked someone else said it and you're attempting to be white knight.
Last edited:
You've been given very good evidence what their base salaries are. Every extra shift on top of that is overtime. Like in most jobs people don't work extra for free. 36 hours is very normal.
www.glassdoor.co.uk
I should be asking you for evidence they work way more hours for their base, as it is your claim that is less likely to be true.
There are also lots of articles on this if you really bothered. But I suspect you'd want them to print a contract, as "they must be working lots of hours" is your starting point.
Salary: Train Driver in London, UK 2023
The average salary for a Train Driver is £62,559 per year in London, UK. Click here to see the total pay, recent salaries shared and more!
I should be asking you for evidence they work way more hours for their base, as it is your claim that is less likely to be true.
There are also lots of articles on this if you really bothered. But I suspect you'd want them to print a contract, as "they must be working lots of hours" is your starting point.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 22 Jul 2014
- Posts
- 3,900
- Location
- Oxon
From my own experience, energy 'consultancy'. Middlemen industries that offer nothing of value and prey on businesses not knowing any better or not being able to manage things themselves. Hopefully the new AI craze can make them redundant if the suppliers invest in better front end experiences without the customers needing to build/acquire their own expertise. When wholesale prices were low it was a goldrush to make commission locking people into 3-5 years contracts, and suppliers were complicit in it too (since they provide the return in most cases).
I get phonecalls on a weekly basis enquiring about our utility contracts (although they've quietened over the last year or so, TCR is the latest opportunity for them to make a buck) from companies that won't exist in a years time when the owners decide to move into something else that offers a better return, leaving whoever was unfortunate enough to take the bait back where they started when they have billing issues, meter problems, whatever else that customer service is generally terrible at solving.
There's lots of opportunities to improve productivity in this country, but it requires government and businesses to put their money where their mouths are - which they've been hesitant to do for 20 years when it's been easier to make a short term return in the markets or property. Long term planning is something humanity just doesn't do well. Something has been lost since the 1950s-60s when there seemed to be a longer term view and strategy. Nowadays we only care about the short to medium term, perhaps because the long term holds lots of scary possible futures thanks to climate change and whatever else comes.
The trend since Labour introduced PFI instead of properly funding things needs to be reversed. It's total nonsense when they say there isn't any money for those investments.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2014
- Posts
- 7,961
- Location
- The Cronx
If there is any bad feeling for train drivers earling 60k (or whatever) for 36 hours work, wait until you hear about consultants (non-medical, might even also be MPs!) you'll puke!
The target is within a percentage point of 2% not 2% or less. Too low a target, IMO, aiming for 3-5% would be better. I also think we should put interest rates back under democratic control, but there's really no chance of that - ending bank independence would spook the markets too much.
It's pretty normal to work 35-37.5 hours for most jobs, including 6 figure jobs.
I'm surprised, others are surprised at that.
I'd give the EU some credit for that.
Last edited:
What very good evidence? Again just because some rando on a forum says something it doesn't make it true. All you've done is post a link to what the median earnings are, that in itself is pretty worthless if you don't know what the median hours worked are, it's not rocket science it's maths.You've been given very good evidence what their base salaries are. Every extra shift on top of that is overtime. Like in most jobs people don't work extra for free. 36 hours is very normal.
Salary: Train Driver in London, UK 2023
The average salary for a Train Driver is £62,559 per year in London, UK. Click here to see the total pay, recent salaries shared and more!
I should be asking you for evidence they work way more hours for their base, as it is your claim that is less likely to be true.
There are also lots of articles on this if you really bothered. But I suspect you'd want them to print a contract, as "they must be working lots of hours" is your starting point.
Why should you be asking me for evidence of how many hours they work? Neither you nor I made the claim that they worked 36hrs for £50k, i simply asked for evidence that it was 36hrs for that amount and you decided to do your best impression of a white knight charging in to defend someone else's argument.
If there's a lot of articles on this then you'll have no problem in posting them, because like i said that link you've now posted twice makes no mention of hrs worked. FYI I'm not saying "they must have worked lots of hours". I'm questioning if, as the person you're so desperately trying to defend said, it's actually £50k for 36hrs worked.
Last edited: