Star Swarm - Oxide bench thread

andybird123 · 10 Feb 2014 at 12:29

MjFrosty said:
Of course there is, you'd be naive to think it's not. It is a Mantle showcase at the end of the day, why on earth would they optimise it properly on DX .

Stupid thing is, there is the option already in there to get a better run on nvidia hardware by enabling deferred contexts, bizare that it is off by default, the motion blur effect also kills performance, turning that off i average over 120fps from 35fps with it on

Silent_Scone · 10 Feb 2014 at 12:36

that's some gain from motion blur. I've not tried it since the update, doesn't really interest me as it's too inconsistent as a benchmark

LtMatt · 18 Feb 2014 at 13:03

"We'd like to point out that our Direct3D performance is absolutely outstanding, relative to what is expected. We have spent a huge amount of time optimizing around D3D, and we feel we are actually pretty biased in D3D's favor. Mantle, on the other hand, we've spent far less time with and currently have only pretty basic optimizations. But Mantle is such an elegant API that it still dwarfs our D3D performance."

Source
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/oxide-mantle-gpu-directx-star-swarm,26029.html

Full Interview
http://www.maximumpc.com/AMD_Mantle_Interview_2014

Rusty0611 · 18 Feb 2014 at 13:05

As if they would say anything different lol.

Gregster · 18 Feb 2014 at 13:06

Well, if that is the best I can expect it to run on my system, I don't see much point in buying the game. I have no wish to play a game at 12 fps at times

LtMatt · 18 Feb 2014 at 13:08

Gregster said:
Well, if that is the best I can expect it to run on my system, I don't see much point in buying the game. I have no wish to play a game at 12 fps at times

Its not a game though is it. Its a benchmark designed to showcase the limitations of D3D and show it for the inefficient API it is when compared to Mantle.

Rusty0611 · 18 Feb 2014 at 13:11

By letting GPUs run at 40% utilisaton in DX? Even Skyrim vsync capped gets higher GPU usage.

humbug · 18 Feb 2014 at 13:11

LtMatt said:
Its not a game though is it. Its a benchmark designed to showcase the limitations of D3D and show it for the inefficient API it is when compared to Mantle.

I have lost count how many times this has already been explained.

LtMatt · 18 Feb 2014 at 13:12

Rusty0611 said:
By letting GPUs run at 40% utilisaton in DX? Even Skyrim vsync capped gets higher GPU usage.

Exactly, because its a limitation of D3D. You can even see it in BF3 and 4 sometimes, if you have more than one gpu.

humbug said:
I have lost count how many times this has already been explained.

Lol. I know. Prepare a brick wall, i think we might need to bang our heads against it shortly.

Gregster · 18 Feb 2014 at 13:13

LtMatt said:
Its not a game though is it. Its a benchmark designed to showcase the limitations of D3D and show it for the inefficient API it is when compared to Mantle.

Ahhh but if it is incorporated into a game (Of which I am sure the nitrous engine is for), I will be avoiding anything that uses it.

If it is purely a showcase for Mantle vS DX, then it is fixed. AMD paid for it and are showing the results they want you to see

humbug · 18 Feb 2014 at 13:17

Gregster said:
Ahhh but if it is incorporated into a game (Of which I am sure the nitrous engine is for), I will be avoiding anything that uses it.

If it is purely a showcase for Mantle vS DX, then it is fixed. AMD paid for it and are showing the results they want you to see

Brick Wall.

Gregster · 18 Feb 2014 at 13:19

humbug said:
Brick Wall.

That's cool and like I said, if the nitrous engine makes it into games, I will not be buying.

LtMatt · 18 Feb 2014 at 13:19

Gregster said:
Ahhh but if it is incorporated into a game (Of which I am sure the nitrous engine is for), I will be avoiding anything that uses it.

If it is purely a showcase for Mantle vS DX, then it is fixed. AMD paid for it and are showing the results they want you to see

humbug said:
Brick Wall.

Lol, im out.

Gregster · 18 Feb 2014 at 13:29

You have absolutely no idea on coding for DX or Mantle Matt/Humbug (as I don't) but feel you know enough to trust that DX is so badly optimised that it can't get my GPU running faster than 40% (when left on default settings) and that is with my CPU at 5Ghz (and that only reaches 30% usage on a couple of cores).... Probably best you are out to save embarrassing yourself.

Rusty0611 · 18 Feb 2014 at 13:29

LtMatt said:
Exactly, because its a limitation of D3D. You can even see it in BF3 and 4 sometimes, if you have more than one gpu.

Never went below 70-80% in BF3. Doubt BF4 would be any difference. That's two GPUs though.

It just sounds like an excuse for bad handywork tbh. Whatever though lol.

40% isn't solely due to DX. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. I have no problem with it being to showcase Mantle though but I just don't believe it's a fair representation of what the real world benefits of Mantle are. Because let's be honest if this engine in its current form made it into a game, there'd be uproar if the mass majority of the market couldn't get their GPUs past 40% in DX. Well there probably wouldn't be uproar as people wouldn't buy it

.

LtMatt · 18 Feb 2014 at 13:31

Ever thought it could be the API unable to handle the massive amount of draw calls and other features that starswarm uses?

Gregster · 18 Feb 2014 at 13:34

LtMatt said:
Ever thought it could be the API unable to handle the massive amount of draw calls and other features that starswarm uses?

I want to believe you are right Matt, Ohhh I seriously do but something keeps niggling away at me and I think it is to do with AMD being involved.

LtMatt · 18 Feb 2014 at 13:35

Gregster said:
I want to believe you are right Matt, Ohhh I seriously do but something keeps niggling away at me and I think it is to do with AMD being involved.

Are you sure you're not mistaking AMD for Nvidia old boy?

humbug · 18 Feb 2014 at 13:37

LtMatt said:
Ever thought it could be the API unable to handle the massive amount of draw calls and other features that starswarm uses?

Forget it Matt, he already knows all this.

This post here...

Gregster said:
You have absolutely no idea on coding for DX or Mantle Matt/Humbug (as I don't) but feel you know enough to trust that DX is so badly optimised that it can't get my GPU running faster than 40% (when left on default settings) and that is with my CPU at 5Ghz (and that only reaches 30% usage on a couple of cores).... Probably best you are out to save embarrassing yourself.

Is clearly baiting for exactly the same argument to restart, again.

TheRealDeal · 18 Feb 2014 at 13:39

Gregster said:
I want to believe you are right Matt, Ohhh I seriously do but something keeps niggling away at me and I think it is to do with AMD being involved.

Yet the makers have said they have spent loads of time on there dx implementation and very little time with mantle. It's been known for a long time that dx has it's limitations. Maybe this and mantle are showing just how bad dx really is.