I used to like that too about 2 decades or so ago, was well popular
Star Trek: Picard
- Thread starter glenimp617
- Start date
- Joined
- 30 Sep 2005
- Posts
- 16,720
The End is the Beginning
Just watching ep 3 and someone said something that has made me think the romulans might have experimented in cybernetic shared consciousnesses a very long time ago which begs me to wonder did they create a early borg concept and it turned very badly and thats why they have this hidden society that banned synthetics from then on. Heck they might have made the borg then they fled to to the delta quadrant and romulans buried all knowledge of it. Its very unlikely but theres a theory for now.
Tho i hope im wrong in the assumption and its totally not this.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 17 Jun 2010
- Posts
- 12,494
- Location
- London
Every species has a Borg designation (e.g. humans are definitely Species 5618) and the Romulans are Species 3783, so if your hypothesis were true they'd be Species 01. Canon-wise it's always been set up that they originated in the Delta quadrant, and I'd hope it stays that way rather than some ret-conning or time travel shenanigans as I hate all that stuff.
Apparently episodes 2 and 3 were originally supposed to be a single episode, so perhaps now the series will get going a bit more rather than doing all the establishing. And what was up with Commodore Oh turning up in sunglasses like it's a disguise or something? 
As an avid trikkie and huge fan of PS, I cant help but feel like this is letting down Picard.
Playing him as old and frail, painfully "out of breath", discussions that seem to be more monologues than an actual chat between two people.
And with a limited number of episodes, the last 2 have done painfully little. I really hope 4 onwards really puts some stride back into the character.
Playing him as old and frail, painfully "out of breath", discussions that seem to be more monologues than an actual chat between two people.
And with a limited number of episodes, the last 2 have done painfully little. I really hope 4 onwards really puts some stride back into the character.
I believe that like the start of Discovery, the first 3 episodes are really all one big first episode with the series really taking off now.
I have enjoyed everything up till now and like the direction things seem to be heading.
I have enjoyed everything up till now and like the direction things seem to be heading.
Soldato
- Joined
- 17 Jun 2010
- Posts
- 12,494
- Location
- London
The only thing it made me think of was the whole Vulcan/Romulan split, because the latter were a minority who rejected Sarek's teachings of logic and mastering the mind to go off and do some empire building... and don't do any of the telepathic stuff their cousins are capable of.
Soldato
- Joined
- 17 Aug 2003
- Posts
- 20,160
- Location
- Woburn Sand Dunes
Might as well move this thread to the US forum seeing as 90% of the people posting are watching the episode before its aired in the UK anyway..
I tried again and am quite enjoying it now.
Permabanned
- Joined
- 23 Apr 2014
- Posts
- 23,552
- Location
- Hertfordshire
EP3 was a bit weak imo, though the last 5 seconds was right in the feels. 
Well it's still pretty cool to pirate your favourite TV shows you know. Apparently....or something. Dunno, I just pay for all mine and watch them when they are available.
I'll just have to wait until tonight instead.It's that time again!
Season 1, Episode 3 - "The End is the Beginning"
Season 1, Episode 3 - "The End is the Beginning"
1) Again with the "Previously on..." 
It was a week ago! It was bad enough when they used to do it with DS9 during the Dominion War arc, but at least that was quite often used because there were multiple, wildly different plot threads set in different locations. This series has two basic plots and locations, currently - Picard on Earth and Soji on the Borg cube. If you can't follow that without a recap then you're not paying nearly enough attention
2) Another flashback to Mars. The synths really did make quite the mess.
3) Still flashed back, at Starfleet HQ. Some Picard and Raffi backstory I take it?
4) Yep.
5) Raffi knows what's up. Though she's probably off base with the Tal Shiar, as we later in the timeline learn about the Zhat Vash (going with that spelling for now, it's the one Memory Alpha is using).
6) "Nobody is thinking, nobody is listening, they're just reacting." Trek As Social Commentary, part 685.
7) You can see how heartbroken Picard is about Starfleet's decision to abandon rescue efforts for the Romulans. Not ranting and raving, just quietly sad.
8) Thus ends the Starfleet career of Jean-Luc Picard.
9) And I guess Raffi's as well. Explains why she wasn't overjoyed to see him last time out.
10) It's a perfectly nice tune this. But it really doesn't ever go beyond 'nice' until right at the end when it goes Trek-y. Even "Faith of the Heart" was at least halfway memorable.
11) Back to the present. Or the future? Whatever.
12) Future weed pen!
13) Say what you like about him, but Picard does at least know when he's screwed up.
14) Meanwhile, at the Borg cube...
15) Right, STD showrunners. Here's a thing. When you want to show an interior that's large, you have to make the exterior large as well. Like this. You aren't making Doctor Who, you can't just handwave it with talk of dimensional engineering. That's one of the many, many reasons why the USS DiscoBall doesn't make sense as a design.
16) Hugh!
17) Looking somewhat different than when last seen I might add.
18) Bit of exposition/backstory
19) A lot of exposition/backstory
20) So much exposition/backstory
21) Back to Kirk's Rock. Picard doing his level best to apologise while badly out of breath.
22) So Picard has figured that the Federation are complicit in Dahj's death. So he's presumably going way off the reservation now.
23) That's what happens when you hit the weed pen that hard Raffi. You get all squirrely.
24) Well, at least you've got yourself a pilot Jean-Luc.
25) Whoops. Oh of Starfleet Security wants a word with Jurati. That can't be good.
26) Oh's ears are distracting, even by Vulcanoid standards.
27) And we're on the cube again, with Soji and Hugh.
28) Hugh got himself some authoritah.
29) Seems that Romulans don't come out of the other end of assimilation all that well.
30) Space jigsaw!
31) Back to Raffi's trailer.
32) Tee hee. Picard knows you a bit too well Raf' old love!
33) Picard beams up to a ship, and there's the Goldsmith theme again. Quite literally music to my ears.
34) Quick, wistful look at the captain's chair on the La Sirena, Goldsmith-esque music. Trek really is back.
35) "I'm not in the habit of consulting lawyers before doing what needs to be done."
36) Good thing EMHs are programmed not to belt patients around the head! Neat trick having the EMH's physically patterned after himself though, saves on hiring a different actor and it's a 'trick' that has been done on-screen for decades.
37) "Raffi warned me you were a speech-maker." God, it's nice to hear vaguely well-written dialogue in a Star Trek show. I missed that with much of STD.
38) Raf' meanwhile is hip-deep in information. And is figuring **** out, while trying not to.
39) Rios' tragic backstory is tragic.
40) Picard and Laris going poetic.
41) Ramdha still at the space jigsaw.
42) Gratuitous Romulan language.
43) Aaaaand the Zhad Vash are attacking Picard. Good thing he has former Tal Shiar as the live-in help. Also, score another one for the useful nature of plot protection as Zhaban's near-fumble of that piece of fruit lets him avoid the incoming disruptor fire.
44) Man, there's hidden guns all over that room! Nice to see Picard get in on the action as well. Not quite dead yet
45) Always one more left at the end. Good thing Jurati was there.
46) Picard straight away leaping into comforting mode, like he did with Dahj.
47) Weee, interrogation time. This is what the Tal Shiar do best.
48) Jurati told Oh about what Picard was looking for. So, that's ramped up the jeopardy one or three notches.
49) I love the interplay between Laris and Zhaban so ******* much.
50) Oh dear Zhat Vash operative. Picard's looking at you with that face. Hope you have a poison pill, or another of those acid things that y'all used to kill Dahj.
51) And we zip back over to the Borg cube, Soji trying to talk to Ramdha.
52) More gratuitous Romulan.
53) Fairly typical of Romulans not to have much to do with mythology. Their Vulcan brethren were and are all about it, so it makes sense that they'd reject it along with the teachings of Surak.
54) So that's Soji's 'mission' sort-of brought into focus.
55) "I know you." Hell of a place to cut the scene on!
56) Back to the interrogation at Chateau Picard.
57) Oh, that's cute. So northerner Romulans have the head ridges. That's why some have them and some don't.
58) Cut back to the cube and Ramdha, who is confused.
59) Soji trying to get through the confusion.
60) And Soji clearly knows a lot more than she was letting on. More than Hugh thought.
61) Cutting back and forth between the cub and the chateau. And the Romulan agent speaks! "She's not a girl!" Someone best tell Narek, because he slept with her sister
62) "Which one are you?" Soji doesn't understand. Yet.
63) Picard still trying to get answers.
64) "Which sister are you?" The plot is gathering a bit of pace now.
65) Romulan agent tries to be all big and bad, former Tal Shiar team knock him on his back. Poor dumb *******.
66) Whoops, Ramdha's going loopy. And she gets a gun off a Romulan guard - guess that dude's going back to remedial training. If he lives.
67) And he did have acid. But again, plot protection saves Zhaban, Laris and Picard. Doesn't, however, save his carpet. Or Zhaban's jacket.
68) Soji quick on the draw to save Ramdha from suicide. Hugh quick on the draw to put the blame for her getting a gun on the guard, where it should be.
69) Nice.
70) Hmm. All the Romulan former Borg looking at Soji like she's an abomination.
71) Soji straight on the space phone to her mum to ask about sis'. And the conversation knocks her out. So...that's weird.
72) Ah, there's Narek. Not looking mega happy that his girlfriend was in the same room as someone freaking out with a gun.
73) "Even Romulan censors have to slip up sometimes." Heresy!
74) So she's rationalising why she knows what she knows, like her sister tried to rationalise what was happening to her. Hooray for continuity!
75) This relationship is going to end very poorly for one or both of these two. For her if he's simply playing a part to find out her 'secret', for both of them if he's actually falling in love with her.
76) Hey, Rizzo's out of her disguise.
77) Yeah, 'cause Rizzo's not creepily obsessed with who her brother is sleeping with at all...
78) Scratch that, this pair's whole relationship is creepy.
79) Back to Picard.
80) Jurati desperate to go with him.
81) Looks like Raffi couldn't resist either.
82) "Engage!" Oh God, the feels. All the feels. And the soundtrack knows it too.
83) "Next time..." because waiting a whole week is so last century.
It was a week ago! It was bad enough when they used to do it with DS9 during the Dominion War arc, but at least that was quite often used because there were multiple, wildly different plot threads set in different locations. This series has two basic plots and locations, currently - Picard on Earth and Soji on the Borg cube. If you can't follow that without a recap then you're not paying nearly enough attention 2) Another flashback to Mars. The synths really did make quite the mess.
3) Still flashed back, at Starfleet HQ. Some Picard and Raffi backstory I take it?
4) Yep.
5) Raffi knows what's up. Though she's probably off base with the Tal Shiar, as we later in the timeline learn about the Zhat Vash (going with that spelling for now, it's the one Memory Alpha is using).
6) "Nobody is thinking, nobody is listening, they're just reacting." Trek As Social Commentary, part 685.
7) You can see how heartbroken Picard is about Starfleet's decision to abandon rescue efforts for the Romulans. Not ranting and raving, just quietly sad.
8) Thus ends the Starfleet career of Jean-Luc Picard.
9) And I guess Raffi's as well. Explains why she wasn't overjoyed to see him last time out.
10) It's a perfectly nice tune this. But it really doesn't ever go beyond 'nice' until right at the end when it goes Trek-y. Even "Faith of the Heart" was at least halfway memorable.
11) Back to the present. Or the future? Whatever.
12) Future weed pen!
13) Say what you like about him, but Picard does at least know when he's screwed up.
14) Meanwhile, at the Borg cube...
15) Right, STD showrunners. Here's a thing. When you want to show an interior that's large, you have to make the exterior large as well. Like this. You aren't making Doctor Who, you can't just handwave it with talk of dimensional engineering. That's one of the many, many reasons why the USS DiscoBall doesn't make sense as a design.
16) Hugh!
17) Looking somewhat different than when last seen I might add.
18) Bit of exposition/backstory
19) A lot of exposition/backstory
20) So much exposition/backstory
21) Back to Kirk's Rock. Picard doing his level best to apologise while badly out of breath.
22) So Picard has figured that the Federation are complicit in Dahj's death. So he's presumably going way off the reservation now.
23) That's what happens when you hit the weed pen that hard Raffi. You get all squirrely.
24) Well, at least you've got yourself a pilot Jean-Luc.
25) Whoops. Oh of Starfleet Security wants a word with Jurati. That can't be good.
26) Oh's ears are distracting, even by Vulcanoid standards.
27) And we're on the cube again, with Soji and Hugh.
28) Hugh got himself some authoritah.
29) Seems that Romulans don't come out of the other end of assimilation all that well.
30) Space jigsaw!
31) Back to Raffi's trailer.
32) Tee hee. Picard knows you a bit too well Raf' old love!
33) Picard beams up to a ship, and there's the Goldsmith theme again. Quite literally music to my ears.
34) Quick, wistful look at the captain's chair on the La Sirena, Goldsmith-esque music. Trek really is back.
35) "I'm not in the habit of consulting lawyers before doing what needs to be done."
36) Good thing EMHs are programmed not to belt patients around the head! Neat trick having the EMH's physically patterned after himself though, saves on hiring a different actor and it's a 'trick' that has been done on-screen for decades.
37) "Raffi warned me you were a speech-maker." God, it's nice to hear vaguely well-written dialogue in a Star Trek show. I missed that with much of STD.
38) Raf' meanwhile is hip-deep in information. And is figuring **** out, while trying not to.
39) Rios' tragic backstory is tragic.
40) Picard and Laris going poetic.
41) Ramdha still at the space jigsaw.
42) Gratuitous Romulan language.
43) Aaaaand the Zhad Vash are attacking Picard. Good thing he has former Tal Shiar as the live-in help. Also, score another one for the useful nature of plot protection as Zhaban's near-fumble of that piece of fruit lets him avoid the incoming disruptor fire.
44) Man, there's hidden guns all over that room! Nice to see Picard get in on the action as well. Not quite dead yet
45) Always one more left at the end. Good thing Jurati was there.
46) Picard straight away leaping into comforting mode, like he did with Dahj.
47) Weee, interrogation time. This is what the Tal Shiar do best.
48) Jurati told Oh about what Picard was looking for. So, that's ramped up the jeopardy one or three notches.
49) I love the interplay between Laris and Zhaban so ******* much.
50) Oh dear Zhat Vash operative. Picard's looking at you with that face. Hope you have a poison pill, or another of those acid things that y'all used to kill Dahj.
51) And we zip back over to the Borg cube, Soji trying to talk to Ramdha.
52) More gratuitous Romulan.
53) Fairly typical of Romulans not to have much to do with mythology. Their Vulcan brethren were and are all about it, so it makes sense that they'd reject it along with the teachings of Surak.
54) So that's Soji's 'mission' sort-of brought into focus.
55) "I know you." Hell of a place to cut the scene on!
56) Back to the interrogation at Chateau Picard.
57) Oh, that's cute. So northerner Romulans have the head ridges. That's why some have them and some don't.
58) Cut back to the cube and Ramdha, who is confused.
59) Soji trying to get through the confusion.
60) And Soji clearly knows a lot more than she was letting on. More than Hugh thought.
61) Cutting back and forth between the cub and the chateau. And the Romulan agent speaks! "She's not a girl!" Someone best tell Narek, because he slept with her sister
62) "Which one are you?" Soji doesn't understand. Yet.
63) Picard still trying to get answers.
64) "Which sister are you?" The plot is gathering a bit of pace now.
65) Romulan agent tries to be all big and bad, former Tal Shiar team knock him on his back. Poor dumb *******.
66) Whoops, Ramdha's going loopy. And she gets a gun off a Romulan guard - guess that dude's going back to remedial training. If he lives.
67) And he did have acid. But again, plot protection saves Zhaban, Laris and Picard. Doesn't, however, save his carpet. Or Zhaban's jacket.
68) Soji quick on the draw to save Ramdha from suicide. Hugh quick on the draw to put the blame for her getting a gun on the guard, where it should be.
69) Nice.
70) Hmm. All the Romulan former Borg looking at Soji like she's an abomination.
71) Soji straight on the space phone to her mum to ask about sis'. And the conversation knocks her out. So...that's weird.
72) Ah, there's Narek. Not looking mega happy that his girlfriend was in the same room as someone freaking out with a gun.
73) "Even Romulan censors have to slip up sometimes." Heresy!
74) So she's rationalising why she knows what she knows, like her sister tried to rationalise what was happening to her. Hooray for continuity!
75) This relationship is going to end very poorly for one or both of these two. For her if he's simply playing a part to find out her 'secret', for both of them if he's actually falling in love with her.
76) Hey, Rizzo's out of her disguise.
77) Yeah, 'cause Rizzo's not creepily obsessed with who her brother is sleeping with at all...
78) Scratch that, this pair's whole relationship is creepy.
79) Back to Picard.
80) Jurati desperate to go with him.
81) Looks like Raffi couldn't resist either.
82) "Engage!" Oh God, the feels. All the feels. And the soundtrack knows it too.
83) "Next time..." because waiting a whole week is so last century.
If last week's episode suffered at all it's because it threw a lot of exposition out at the audience but didn't really go anywhere with it yet. This week, the exposition is still being thrown around but it's to an end - the plot of the series is being filled in. Still a lot of questions to answer, but at least it feels like they're going to be answered. And we end the episode on a ship, going to warp. The best way to go get answers
The main cast continue to be as good as the STD main cast are variously bad or unmemorable. We get a proper introduction to Michelle Hurd's Raffi, who is clearly damaged by her split from Starfleet. Santiago Cabrera as Cristóbal Rios was good, he's clearly got some complicated skeletons in his closet like Raffi that mean his time in Starfleet isn't a good memory. It was a nice conceit to have his holograms (the EMH and the Emergency Navigational Hologram) played by Cabrera as well. And the ENH meant that we got another Irish accent on this show! Alison Pill continues to impress as Jurati, and she got a bit more to do than infodump on the audience. Her reaction to shooting the Romulan intruder was believable, her pleading to go with Picard into space equally so. And I really hope this isn't the last we see of Laris and Zhaban - Orla Brady and Jamie McShane have provided some of my favourite moments over these opening three episodes. Tamlyn Tomita manages to do 'menacing' very well as Commodore Oh with minimal emotion as befitting a Vulcan/undercover Romulan (which I guess we'll find out for certain sometime). If the cast falls down anywhere, it's over on the Borg cube. Isa Briones is great, playing a young woman who knows things that she shouldn't and doesn't understand why. What we saw of the returning Jonathan Del Arco as Hugh was good as well. But Peyton List's Rizzo is hitting a whole bunch of villain tropes hard. Not really her fault though, that one's on the writers. And every time I look at Harry Treadaway's Narek I can only see Ethan Peck's NotQuiteSpock from STD. Maybe I'll get over that.
One thing I won't get over in a hurry is hearing Picard say "Engage!". Patrick Stewart shines in every scene, because he's a God damned professional and he always gives his best. But the way he delivered that line, with the soundtrack going full Goldsmith behind him...beautiful. Star Trek is back. Praise be to every deity going. And after a couple of episodes of being mostly coddled and looked after, he got in on the act defending Chateau Picard from the Zhat Vash operatives. He's (fortunately) not gone full action hero yet like he did in the films, but he's definitely getting back some of the old Picard's willingness to throw down and get stuck in when required.
Pacing continues to be rather less schizophrenic than STD, going up-tempo as required. The cutting back and forth between the Chateau and the Borg cube was a neat way of keeping both plot threads moving, it's a kind-of cinematic idea that TV shows are using more and more these days and one of the few things where I think TV has actually improved over the years. The dialogue continues to be (in the main) well-written. The snappy moments don't feel overly glib, the moments that matter don't feel heavy-handed.
More "hooray for continuity!" moments abound. We get an answer for why some Romulans have forehead bumps and some don't. Soji reacting to her sudden new knowledge in much the same way her sister Dahj reacted to what was going on. The ENH's gushing over Picard's past exploits.
Next episode up has a change in the directors chair. Hanelle Culpepper directed the opening trilogy, and did a fine job. The next one is directed by someone who knows Trek and Patrick Stewart very well - Jonathan 'Two Takes' Frakes
The main cast continue to be as good as the STD main cast are variously bad or unmemorable. We get a proper introduction to Michelle Hurd's Raffi, who is clearly damaged by her split from Starfleet. Santiago Cabrera as Cristóbal Rios was good, he's clearly got some complicated skeletons in his closet like Raffi that mean his time in Starfleet isn't a good memory. It was a nice conceit to have his holograms (the EMH and the Emergency Navigational Hologram) played by Cabrera as well. And the ENH meant that we got another Irish accent on this show! Alison Pill continues to impress as Jurati, and she got a bit more to do than infodump on the audience. Her reaction to shooting the Romulan intruder was believable, her pleading to go with Picard into space equally so. And I really hope this isn't the last we see of Laris and Zhaban - Orla Brady and Jamie McShane have provided some of my favourite moments over these opening three episodes. Tamlyn Tomita manages to do 'menacing' very well as Commodore Oh with minimal emotion as befitting a Vulcan/undercover Romulan (which I guess we'll find out for certain sometime). If the cast falls down anywhere, it's over on the Borg cube. Isa Briones is great, playing a young woman who knows things that she shouldn't and doesn't understand why. What we saw of the returning Jonathan Del Arco as Hugh was good as well. But Peyton List's Rizzo is hitting a whole bunch of villain tropes hard. Not really her fault though, that one's on the writers. And every time I look at Harry Treadaway's Narek I can only see Ethan Peck's NotQuiteSpock from STD. Maybe I'll get over that.
One thing I won't get over in a hurry is hearing Picard say "Engage!". Patrick Stewart shines in every scene, because he's a God damned professional and he always gives his best. But the way he delivered that line, with the soundtrack going full Goldsmith behind him...beautiful. Star Trek is back. Praise be to every deity going. And after a couple of episodes of being mostly coddled and looked after, he got in on the act defending Chateau Picard from the Zhat Vash operatives. He's (fortunately) not gone full action hero yet like he did in the films, but he's definitely getting back some of the old Picard's willingness to throw down and get stuck in when required.
Pacing continues to be rather less schizophrenic than STD, going up-tempo as required. The cutting back and forth between the Chateau and the Borg cube was a neat way of keeping both plot threads moving, it's a kind-of cinematic idea that TV shows are using more and more these days and one of the few things where I think TV has actually improved over the years. The dialogue continues to be (in the main) well-written. The snappy moments don't feel overly glib, the moments that matter don't feel heavy-handed.
More "hooray for continuity!" moments abound. We get an answer for why some Romulans have forehead bumps and some don't. Soji reacting to her sudden new knowledge in much the same way her sister Dahj reacted to what was going on. The ENH's gushing over Picard's past exploits.
Next episode up has a change in the directors chair. Hanelle Culpepper directed the opening trilogy, and did a fine job. The next one is directed by someone who knows Trek and Patrick Stewart very well - Jonathan 'Two Takes' Frakes
I only have a couple of thoughts to add to that.
I'm not a massive trekkie. I commit the cardinal sin of quite liking the reboot films even. I'm rather enjoying this so far though.
Given what Picard had just seen done to Darj, you'd have thought they'd be a bit more careful about standing directly in front of the Romulan having a chat.
The fumbling the food to duck a shot was very cliche.
I too hope that the housekeepers stay in the rest of the series. In fact, showing a certain amount of being captured by the story, I was very much hoping they would beam up with Picard because they'd all just been told that the chateau was going to be attacked again.
The fumbling the food to duck a shot was very cliche.
I too hope that the housekeepers stay in the rest of the series. In fact, showing a certain amount of being captured by the story, I was very much hoping they would beam up with Picard because they'd all just been told that the chateau was going to be attacked again.
I'm not a massive trekkie. I commit the cardinal sin of quite liking the reboot films even. I'm rather enjoying this so far though.
Soldato
- Joined
- 12 Feb 2006
- Posts
- 17,413
- Location
- Surrey
Is amazon the only way to watch this?
- Joined
- 30 Sep 2005
- Posts
- 16,720
Who cares? I have amazon prime but i'd prefer to see the show sooner rather than later.