Star Wars VIII : The Last Jedi [WARNING: SPOILERS]

Scrutinize said:
Yes but Star Wars needs to be accessible to all otherwise it becomes a niche film for niche audiences, who will still moan either way. A small group of star wars fans can't even ever seen to agree on plots, lore or direction in a pub or at a convention so there is no hope relying on them a critics.
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I'm sorry, but they just aren't star wars films anymore.

They should save all the guardians of the galaxy stuff for a different film.

I refuse to pay £20 to go see star wars in its current state.
 
Well, the "Skywalker saga as seen through the eyes of the droids" about Jedi and Sith has just expired on us mid-season into expanded universe crossover comedy, so the correct comparison would be like watching Guardians of The Galaxy as a super serious movie featuring just Groot and couple of random X-men...
 
enigma27 said:
But that's the problem right there. This trilogy was suit as the continuation of the Skywalker saga but after this film i can't see how they will end it as there ain't any. For me i enjoyed it but the feeling i had after was maybe fear of what EP9 will bring. I am all for passing on the torch but the way this film has handled it leaves me with nothing to look forward to with any of the 3 main characters. Poe just send to have no story. The Rey question had been answered so for me she is a nothing character now if that truly is her origin and Finn.. will i have made my feelings clear about him.
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Times move on, continuation doesn't mean a carbon copy. It has to be relevant to current generations which will be future generations of fans. This is going to be 'star wars' for a huge amount of audiences, many won't have seen the originals or even I, II & III bar on TV.

The film's are a commercial enterprise so have to make money. Imagine if George Lucas had made Star Wars in the style of the general 60s and 70s films influencing most cinema of the time.

And re-Rey being a nobody. Anakin was a nobody, a slave so the parallel to Rey is perfect and should have been expected. She may still be a force baby but the Skywalker dynasty is only 2 generations old i.e. Anakin to Luke/Leia then from Leia to Kylo.

IvanDobskey said:
I'm sorry, but they just aren't star wars films anymore.

They should save all the guardians of the galaxy stuff for a different film.

I refuse to pay £20 to go see star wars in its current state.
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They are star wars for the current and future generations and have enough of the old to bring great continuity.

Some fans pretty much view Star Wars as episodes V and VI, others kind of discount the first five and hold VI as the holy grail.

The sad truth is, as we get older and affiliate closer with with nostalgia; we forget what it is like to view films like this as a younger us, as we would have when we first watched them.

This always poses a great challenge for reboots or franchise continuations many years later. It happens with everything from Transformers to Marcel/DC.
 
Scrutinize said:
Times move on, continuation doesn't mean a carbon copy. It has to be relevant to current generations which will be future generations of fans. This is going to be 'star wars' for a huge amount of audiences, many won't have seen the originals or even I, II & III bar on TV.

The film's are a commercial enterprise so have to make money. Imagine if George Lucas had made Star Wars in the style of the general 60s and 70s films influencing most cinema of the time.

And re-Rey being a nobody. Anakin was a nobody, a slave so the parallel to Rey is perfect and should have been expected. She may still be a force baby but the Skywalker dynasty is only 2 generations old i.e. Anakin to Luke/Leia then from Leia to Kylo.



They are star wars for the current and future generations and have enough of the old to bring great continuity.

Some fans pretty much view Star Wars as episodes V and VI, others kind of discount the first five and hold VI as the holy grail.

The sad truth is, as we get older and affiliate closer with with nostalgia; we forget what it is like to view films like this as a younger us, as we would have when we first watched them.

This always poses a great challenge for reboots or franchise continuations many years later. It happens with everything from Transformers to Marcel/DC.
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Sadly, you speak the truth there.

Star wars just isn't being made for fans of the original trilogy.

It's being made for the current generation of cinema goers :(
 
Despite the huge amounts of rubbish in it, I’m at the point where I think they took the story forward better by far in the EU. Especially the Skywalker story but can see why they didn’t go that route. To me that’s the story I remember and I just have to accept I have grown out of Star Wars.

I probably wouldn’t like the older movies today either, like my dad who thought they were poorly acted pap. Star Wars for me now will be something I watch when it pops onto Netflix.
 
Scrutinize said:
Times move on, continuation doesn't mean a carbon copy. It has to be relevant to current generations which will be future generations of fans. This is going to be 'star wars' for a huge amount of audiences, many won't have seen the originals or even I, II & III bar on TV.

The film's are a commercial enterprise so have to make money. Imagine if George Lucas had made Star Wars in the style of the general 60s and 70s films influencing most cinema of the time.

And re-Rey being a nobody. Anakin was a nobody, a slave so the parallel to Rey is perfect and should have been expected. She may still be a force baby but the Skywalker dynasty is only 2 generations old i.e. Anakin to Luke/Leia then from Leia to Kylo.



They are star wars for the current and future generations and have enough of the old to bring great continuity.

Some fans pretty much view Star Wars as episodes V and VI, others kind of discount the first five and hold VI as the holy grail.

The sad truth is, as we get older and affiliate closer with with nostalgia; we forget what it is like to view films like this as a younger us, as we would have when we first watched them.

This always poses a great challenge for reboots or franchise continuations many years later. It happens with everything from Transformers to Marcel/DC.
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I agree times need to move on and i was excited to see how they progress the new trio.. i like Rey in tfa and thought she had potential but now for me there is nothing exciting about her story i am looking forward to seeing to conclude in ep9. It's like a big wall had been suddenly put up by Rian the story of old and new had finished but for me it was too sudden. It will be interesting to see if JJ undoes anything Rian did.
 
v0n said:
We can agree on core Star Wars fans not being target audience, but that leaves a question - why bother - why destroy old to spark new - why make Alien vs Predator for neither Alien nor Predator fans kind of thing?
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the Alien and Predator franchise aren't that marketable as a family franchise and have a very limited purposeful fan base compared to something like Star Wars. It's not really comparrable but I appreciate your point.

Lots of people will enjoy the AvP / A&P franchise films and go see them regardless but it doesn't build the gravitas of the wide reaching extended universes that SW/Marvel/DC etc do; from comics, TV series and cartoons through to toys and conventions. Toys and retail goods are limited to the collectibles only in the Forbidden Planet type shops on many franchises, Aliens being one of several examples.

I would expect 80-90% of star wars fans enjoy the new films. I would also expect millions of new fans as a result. Probably more than from the original series. The majority of the SW universe from toys, cartoons and games are aimed at younger generations and always have been. Even the films were/are.

The black/elite 6" series of toys are a limited market and focused on the parents / older fans. The fact the adults will still buy the 3.75" line and Lego for themselves is one of those things.

It's a testament to how broad the SW franchise is.
 
I don't mind what they did with Luke. I took it that it wasn't that the effort of what he did killed him but that he'd become 'one' with the Force after letting it back in so had 'ascended'. The fan fic. version of his story would have been for him to raise his X-Wing out of the water (and for it to still work somehow) after his discussion with Yoda, fly to Crait, chat with Leia, walk out of the blast doors and Force push over the First Order walkers then kill or seriously injure Kylo (chop his hand off).

It seems most people didn't like the initial scene with Poe. I thought it was good albeit they stretched the joke too much. At least we got to see him actually do what he's good at, which is blow stuff up in his X-Wing, which they promptly then destroyed.

They should have let Finn die on Crait, at least his character would have meant something then.

The other thing that didn't make sense about the Mon Cal cruiser part of the story was that the First Order could have just sent TIEs in. Yes, there would be no cover from the capital ships but there must have been 10,000+ TIEs on those ships. Sheer weight of numbers mean it would have been a no contest. They could also have covered off part of the criticism by having some astronomical phenomena in the way, e.g. dangerous nebula, collapsing star or black hole on the far side of the Resistance fleet.

One other upside of the film which I'd forgotten was Adam Driver's performance which I thought was great given what he had to work with.

Agree with the previous comments about Rey's parents, that was surely a lie by Kylo. Why did we see her parents fly away and why did she have the Rebel pilot doll?

Seen some amusing references to the Kylo/Rey conversations as FaceTime, should be ForceTime surely?

@Scrutinize I totally get your argument about it being for a new generation but I don't think they should do that with the Skywalker story arc. They could have done that with the new trilogy that Johnson is going to direct.
 
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Rifte said:
Watching this movie in a few hours time, and after reading this thread and speaking to a few of my Star Wars buddies who have already seen it my expectations are rock bottom.
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That’s probably a good thing Rifte as after having nothing but the hype and unrelenting praise it's been getting to me it could never live up to that.

Go in, enjoy it for what it is and see what you think :)
 
I want to say…

Like many of you, I came out not knowing what to think of it. In a way, I really enjoyed it, the hours went by without me looking at my watch once which is my minimum qualifier for any movie.

I did enjoy it therefore and I think it should be watched on the big screen because there are a lot of action sequences that was very well done. The things that I liked was the movie kept me guessing and surprised me a few times with its twists and turns, which I guess that is Rian Johnson’s trademark, that is what he is good at. The image of Rey and Ren standing there in the red room with a light sabre each with the guards on the corners is an iconic image, it actually made me smile big time in the cinema, I could have clapped. The moment when Luke turned up and faced Ren, the side shot of that is also another great iconic shot. The light speed jump in the end, that was done so well, amazing. I thought how Ren turned was interesting, it totally fits Luke’s character, always thought he was one that is a bit of a noob without Yoda’s guidance and for Ren to go to the dark side because of this moment was interesting.

What is definitely a mis-step is Fin and Rose doing a stupid detour to find the hacker, it felt like a plot of out a completely different movie. It was like they had to invent something for him to do and it could and should have been something more relevant to the main story. Not sure if all that was worth planting that seed in Fin’s head about just going it alone, stay out of it mentality, like he originally wanted to do.

Then the bit that I am definitely not sure about, so so many endings, the good is that basically the entire 3rd arc was climax after climax which was great but it left my head a bit messed up, the whole thing ended up feeling a bit bumpy, a bit disjointed.

What was silly

- There is no gravity in space, bombs don’t fall, they should just shoot those damn balls like a missle, and these stupid bombers…go faster?
- Leia waking up in space and did a force thingy and move? WTF. That was absurd.
- Was that all the training Rey needs? 3 small talks and bam, there you go ! It makes all those years needed for kids to be trained a bit silly
- Yoda coming back, not only for a chat, but can affect weather?? He might as well snap his fingers and throw entire planets around the galaxy.

I am going to see it again, to see if what I know now will make the movie make more sense because at the moment, my mind feels Star Wars is a bit messed up. I guess may because they pretty much got rid with all the old guard, so the anchor of the characters we have grown to love over the few decades are all but all gone, it feels a too unfamiliar, maybe that’s why I feel this unease. The plot wise still is simple enough, the entire movie was pretty much First Order chasing the Resistance, which begs the question….how long was Rey on that island? Hours? Days? Weeks? Months?

May be it would be a good thing that they finish this Skywalker saga, do new movies with new people, without the burden of the original trilogy weighting it down and dictating the beats of the movie.
 
Well I really enjoyed it. I did have some issues with it though.

1. Two films in and we now have a situation where the three main people from Star Wars will be missing from the final film.
2. Snoke was wasted. We had no background on him to explain his rise to power and he died in such a rubbish manner.
3. The reveal of Rey's parents was awful. If it was true it is a complete let down.
 
v0n said:
We can agree on core Star Wars fans not being target audience, but that leaves a question - why bother - why destroy old to spark new - why make Alien vs Predator for neither Alien nor Predator fans kind of thing?
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For the money. To mix my franchises, the Ferengi rule of Aquisition 10: "Greed is eternal". An established franchise with wide appeal and massive merchandising opportunities is going to bring in the cash. They could do a hundred movies from new IP, and even if one of them takes off, it won't have the profit and potential future profit of the Star Wars franchise. A "Lord Of The Rings", "Harry Potter" or "Star Trek" comes around very rarely, and cinema is full of attempts that tried. "Tried and failed?" "Tried and died." (Dune).
 
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