So it was on track to become the highest grossing film in 2017 and, so far, has pulled $1.2billion worldwide, including nearly $600m in the US alone. And people are calling it a failure? Admittedly TFA made $2 billion worldwide, but to say TLJ is a failure is far from it. It's also sitting third in Disney's all time top grossing movies, only beaten by The Avengers and TFA. A failure it most certainly is not.
Star Wars VIII : The Last Jedi [WARNING: SPOILERS]
- Thread starter opstrat
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No film was ever going to do TFA money as that was an event movie that even peoples parents and grandparents went to, to see what all the fuss was about.
Soldato
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I wouldn’t call TLJ a commercial failure far from it. But they have steered into dangerous waters because it is hugely critically divisive. They made a beautiful, well acted film with superior effects sound and music. But the story is poor, messy and disliked by a seemingly significant proportion of its viewers.
This a marquee brand, it should be cherished and only the best writing and directing should be allowed. Look at Marvel their weakest film is probably Incredible Hulk and they learned from it after that every film has been pretty solid no duffs. Disney have been careless and this is the consequence. You can get away with that once or twice I reckon before your gold plated money machine loses its lustre.
This a marquee brand, it should be cherished and only the best writing and directing should be allowed. Look at Marvel their weakest film is probably Incredible Hulk and they learned from it after that every film has been pretty solid no duffs. Disney have been careless and this is the consequence. You can get away with that once or twice I reckon before your gold plated money machine loses its lustre.
Thats rubbish. Modern games generally suck because they are NOT made by gamers, they are made by accountants and salesmen who don't really understand the culture.
Caporegime
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Agreed. Does anyone else think it's pretty crazy to not have one major over-arching writer to steer the story (and provide script outlines at least)? I think it's absolutely nuts that RJ was able to get away with ripping up most of what JJ set-up (not all perfect of course) and just leave the end of the second film in a bit of a mess.
Looks like it's a mistake that's been caught though, hence RJ's new Trilogy deal (for better or for worse, at least he'll have control of the entire story!).
I'm not saying that ALL the negative comments are prejudice. More that those making certain comments have a history of anti feminist (and often seemingly anti female) attitudes on this forum.
It was always going to be a commercial success because Star Wars. That doesn't mean it's a good movie, everyone has to see it for themselves to judge so will roll in the sales.
The next film will be the real test anyway. TFA left us with a massive cliffhanger, of course people are going to flock to the cinema to watch it, even if they hear divisive things about it. TLJ left us with nothing of interest going forward, no questions to be answered because they basically threw out every question TFA put forward. We're back where we started 40 years ago. Resistance vs First Order and Rey vs Kylo that's it.
Associate
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I'm fairly certain if I was given the permission to make an official "Star Wars" movie, even though I don't have the next clue about film or movie making. But so long as I get something that's passable for a cinema screen. You know what? I'm fairly certain I'd make a bucket load as well. That's the power of the Star Wars brand name (or Mass Effect too, back before the ending happened at ME3). The key thing is: Doesn't mean it's any good.
The Last Jedi isn't a financial failure, but it sure is a failure in terms of being a good movie, and THAT is really where everyone is annoyed about in the end. You can mess up the whole Universe if you want, but tell it in a good way. And The Last Jedi? Was not told well.
The Last Jedi isn't a financial failure, but it sure is a failure in terms of being a good movie, and THAT is really where everyone is annoyed about in the end. You can mess up the whole Universe if you want, but tell it in a good way. And The Last Jedi? Was not told well.
I'm a Star Wars fan from when I was a kid seeing ANH in '77, and it's been a no brainer to go and see every Star Wars movie no matter what, but for the first time, the next movie will not be an automatic go-see. I will wait and hear the reviews from people who have seen it, not the press reviewers who obviously have their jobs to look out for. That's what TLJ did, move Star Wars from a "must see" to a "maybe see".
Star Wars: The Last Jedi is one of those instances where both sides of an argument can use the same facts to justify their points of view. The film made Disney a large return on their investment, so it must be a success, but it made 700 million less that the last one (an all time record for a direct sequel), so it must be a failure. The film is the highest grossing of the year in the US and worldwide, so success, but only number four in the international box office and tanked in China, hence failure. A 30% drop off is not unusual for a sequel, and the same happened to Episodes 2 and 5, so nothing to see there, but sequels in modern shared universes often increase box office takings, or fall by smaller amounts (Justice League was a flop, but was only down 27% on BvS) so it's clearly struggling. In the end, the truth is probably in the middle. I suspect that it's more of a case of The Force Awakens over performing, especially outside of the US, and The Last Jedi is making what an episodic Star Wars film should, at least for now, but the signs are there that the brand is not invincible by itself and the success of Jumanji will have shown other studios that they don't need to fear programming against it. We won't know for a couple of years though.
Soldato
Honestly if Ray had switched to the Dark Side, the film probably would have redeemed itself. The problem is that we all sat through a film where a beloved character acts massively different to what everyone was expecting, the interesting villain dies early and nothing else of interest to the overall arch really happens.
Adam Driver carried the film big time.
Adam Driver carried the film big time.
Soldato
My real issue is that there is no obvious route forwards now. The end of TLJ basically has a handful of survivors (not victors - the remnants of the Resistance all fit on the Falcon. They were slaughtered!) yet TFO is still massive. Snoke is dead but Ren has taken it over so they haven't really lost anything. It's hard to see how the 'good guys' can possibly hope to face down TFO. At least at the end of TESB you saw the Rebel fleet. At the end of TLJ there is only one cargo ship full of folks. Hardly a set up for a rollicking space opera's final film.
Caporegime
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Yup, they've turned from a fairly well-armed Resistance into just a small rabble of people which should be handled by two competent Stormtroopers.
But then again they have their new 'Hyperspace Ramming' technique so they should be able to cause some decent damage with some ships. As long as they don't run out of fuel beforehand of course...
/s
But then again they have their new 'Hyperspace Ramming' technique so they should be able to cause some decent damage with some ships. As long as they don't run out of fuel beforehand of course...
/s
This is why Rian Johnson has killed the story. It's been painted into a corner. There's no Jedi bar Rey's Mary Sue, there's no Rebel Alliance/Republic. Their bases, ships, ground/material/money support, logistics, people, political support, command structure, etc is all gone. They are a spent force of a couple of dozen people.
Even in RoTJ, Luke's individual confrontation with Vader and Palpatine was in concert with a Rebel Fleet attacking Death Star 2, and another Rebel force performing a ground assault on it's force field installation. Luke/Leia/Han were part of a movement, an organisation, an army, as well as a rebellion.
How is any director going to fix this short of pulling more Mary Sues out of his ass, or simply pulling more stuff out of thin air? "Oh, planet x that we've never heard of has decided to send a significant fleet out of nowhere to help us fight"? Oh, Rey's parents are important after all. Oh, Snoke isn't dead really, Luke will come back as a Force Ghost that can do anything a living Jedi can do, etc. It's going to make the fans even more angry and make TLJ even more pointless.
Even in RoTJ, Luke's individual confrontation with Vader and Palpatine was in concert with a Rebel Fleet attacking Death Star 2, and another Rebel force performing a ground assault on it's force field installation. Luke/Leia/Han were part of a movement, an organisation, an army, as well as a rebellion.
How is any director going to fix this short of pulling more Mary Sues out of his ass, or simply pulling more stuff out of thin air? "Oh, planet x that we've never heard of has decided to send a significant fleet out of nowhere to help us fight"? Oh, Rey's parents are important after all. Oh, Snoke isn't dead really, Luke will come back as a Force Ghost that can do anything a living Jedi can do, etc. It's going to make the fans even more angry and make TLJ even more pointless.
Caporegime
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More even. I don't recall a Jedi having the power to call down lightning bolts from above!!! ******* bull.
Caporegime
No, you missed the point.
At no point did I say exclusively that bad games is because gamers designed them. I fully am aware of loot boxes and micro transactions and how they are ruining games.
There are many reasons why a game can be bad, accountants dictating the direction is one of them, but my point is if Gamers make terrible game designers. These 2 are 2 different thing and can co-exists when a game is bad. I am saying, if you give gamers a chance to design games, they will design boring, repetitive games that they love as a kid. Which will result in outdated mechanics, designs, and game play. I did not say all bad games out today are designed by gamers.
And in reality, modern games generally are amazing. People look in the past with rose tinted glasses, have you see some of the old games that came out in the 90's? Most of them are terrible, even some of the ones considered great back then in hindsight are really not that good.
Same goes for movies, "they don't make them like they used to anymore"…there were a tonne of crap films, people just tend to watch the good ones and remember the good ones.
I think you would have a lot of trouble finding a games designer that doesn't consider themselves a gamer, or a film maker that doesn't consider themselves a movie fan.
The problem with modern game development is the designers (who probably are gamers) want one thing, because it's unique and interesting and fun. But the finance department want the same old stuff over and over because they know it sells. That's why every EA and Ubisoft game is the same thing every year.
Caporegime
You got it backwards.
I never said gamer designers aren’t gamers.
I am saying ask gamers, as in people sitting at home that play computer games, ask them to design a game, they’ll do what I said above, which is making a game what they like in the past.