Star Wars VIII : The Last Jedi [WARNING: SPOILERS]

Gerard

Gerard

Gerard

Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
39,309
Location
Ireland

Meddling-Monk

Meddling-Monk

Meddling-Monk

Associate
Joined
2 Sep 2013
Posts
1,898
Meh, anyone read the report that there "was" a "guideline" script in place for 7 8 and 9, but Rian decided to do a Casey Hudson (of Mass Effect 3 ending infamy?) with regards to 8?

ie. They did the exact same thing as Casey Hudson; Write their own thing which seems good, even if it throws everything else out; Adds new things out of the blue. And when the backlash from the crap hitting the fan, begin the "Artistic Integrity" schtick and just blame on the "vocal minority" whilst burying their heads further into the ground and try to convince everyone that they made a masterpiece and that if you can't appreciate it, it's because you suck (or to that effect). And to either accept it or shut it.

Meh, still angry (a bit) over their response. And especially how virtually identical the response was to that ending of ME3.

Congratulations Rian, this is the first Star Wars I'm not interested in buying on any medium.
 

v0n

v0n

v0n

Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
8,130
Location
The Great Lines Of Defence
VincentHanna said:
That's not true. Both Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams have said there was no guidelines.
Click to expand...

You cannot have "no guidelines" in those kind of productions - they have to have at least rough idea of who and where so they can secure actors and locations years ahead of schedule. Can you imagine production meeting where Abrams rolls out his script in front of Kennedy and says "OK, finished it on the train yesterday, you're going to like it, but I'm going to need Ford in Iceland, Fisher in Brasil and Hamill in Ireland for next week". Or can you imagine Johnson only finding out character list - who lives, who dies and who's wounded and so on plus plot points he has to tie up (or destroy in his case) for his script only after watching TFA like the rest of us? That would be complete madness. Of course they have a draft of trilogy and guidelines.
 

PlacidCasual

PlacidCasual

PlacidCasual

Soldato
Joined
13 May 2003
Posts
8,849
Oh come on now, the Rey parent flashback, the Jedi school rebellion, the Luke lightsaber vision in the cantina are just 3 off the top of my head. Trashed, trashed, trashed. Oh and never let us forget the map left behind by the man who apparently never wanted to be found.
 

eggyoke

eggyoke

eggyoke

Soldato
Joined
25 Jun 2005
Posts
2,653
Location
On a hill
There were guidelines for the trilogy. JJ and Kasdan and some other script writer (don't know his name) pre-planned a loose direction. By the time Force Awakens got to shooting some of the scene-to-scene stuff was written on the fly but core stuff was planned to completion with a vision going into 8 and 9.

There have been interviews and articles by both the directors and actors regarding how it all came about. I think what they meant by "there were no guidelines" is that despite the basic path they were taking, it was still essentially a fluid creative thing.

It wasn't until Kathleen Kennedy had Rian Johnson write a script that the original plan JJ and Kasdan wrote was dismissed and Johnson was allowed to basically subvert expectation for the sake of it, without heed to key story plot. Daisy Ridley was asked about this and she pretty much said "Rian came in and did his own thing."

Colin Trevorrow's script for 9 was based on the original JJ plan but he was moved aside after Kathleen made the decision to give Johnson the freedom to do whatever he wanted. Now JJ has come back which he never planned to and wrote a new script in reaction to what Johnson did. So Episode 9 is now solely a product of Episode 8 with very little heed to any plot threads laid down in 7.

I can't be bothered finding all the sources of the info so take it with a pinch of salt. I've been following the new trilogy production since it was announced and there's so many different comments from different people regarding the whole thing that its a mess.

As a life long Star Wars fan I've gone from being hyped about the whole new trilogy to completely disinterested. The whole thing is an absolute mess and has been shockingly mishandled. I'm astonished they've done it this way with a franchise as big as Star Wars. It's a complete joke.
 

VincentHanna

VincentHanna

VincentHanna

Caporegime
Joined
30 Jul 2013
Posts
28,904
I still think Rey's parents being nobody's is the best solution.

Jedis arent even supposed to have kids, which means all the important Jedis other than the Skywalkers also had power-less parents.
 

Meddling-Monk

Meddling-Monk

Meddling-Monk

Associate
Joined
2 Sep 2013
Posts
1,898
VincentHanna said:
I still think Rey's parents being nobody's is the best solution.

Jedis arent even supposed to have kids, which means all the important Jedis other than the Skywalkers also had power-less parents.
Click to expand...

Why are you letting your old expectations of Jedi dictate what is or should be? Did you not watch Epsidoe 8? Let the old ways die. ANYTHING can happen. Expect your expectations to be subverted! There are no rules but rules to be thrown away to make movie magic! :rolleyes: :p

Honestly though, we'll never know what "would have been" here. Because no one wants a repeat of the WB/DC Snyder debacle happen again. They'll keep a tight lid on that unless they don't know what's good for them. And at this current rate of what's happened, that's still a distinct possibility. So I'd say don't give up hope yet of knowing what awesomeness could have been in Ep 8 instead of what was produced.
 

Steampunk

Steampunk

Steampunk

Soldato
Joined
1 Jun 2013
Posts
9,315
VincentHanna said:
I still think Rey's parents being nobody's is the best solution.

Jedis arent even supposed to have kids, which means all the important Jedis other than the Skywalkers also had power-less parents.
Click to expand...

If she had significant parents, it would explain why she can do what she can do. It could also be a great back story as to what happened to her parents and why they abandoned her, who were they, why were they so powerful, and maybe can she find them again. A couple of Jedi, on the run together from the Empire and Vader's pogrom against the Jedi, fall in love, have a child, abandon her in trusted hands while they lead the closing Imperial forces away from their child, intending to come back. They are betrayed, Rey sold into the desert, etc. It could have been a spin off movie (Star Wars - A Jedi Love Story), but better for RJ to throw all that possibility away. Let's just make Rey nothing but a Mary-Sue.
 
Last edited:

Curunen

Curunen

Curunen

Soldato
Joined
17 Jan 2007
Posts
3,417
Location
London
Meddling-Monk said:
Meh, anyone read the report that there "was" a "guideline" script in place for 7 8 and 9, but Rian decided to do a Casey Hudson (of Mass Effect 3 ending infamy?) with regards to 8?

ie. They did the exact same thing as Casey Hudson; Write their own thing which seems good, even if it throws everything else out; Adds new things out of the blue. And when the backlash from the crap hitting the fan, begin the "Artistic Integrity" schtick and just blame on the "vocal minority" whilst burying their heads further into the ground and try to convince everyone that they made a masterpiece and that if you can't appreciate it, it's because you suck (or to that effect). And to either accept it or shut it.

Meh, still angry (a bit) over their response. And especially how virtually identical the response was to that ending of ME3.

Congratulations Rian, this is the first Star Wars I'm not interested in buying on any medium.
Click to expand...
To be fair, mass effect 2 already threw a lot out the window in terms of there being any kind of planned trilogy arc script (ie Karpshyn's planned dark energy idea which you get a trace of from Haestrom in Tali's loyalty mission, and then kind of dissapears into nothing), instead deciding to be a spin off in the middle of a trilogy with hugely disappointing plot progression following the first game, so what happened in 3 is kind of inconsequential after that.
 

Meddling-Monk

Meddling-Monk

Meddling-Monk

Associate
Joined
2 Sep 2013
Posts
1,898
Curunen said:
To be fair, mass effect 2 already threw a lot out the window in terms of there being any kind of planned trilogy arc script (ie Karpshyn's planned dark energy idea which you get a trace of from Haestrom in Tali's loyalty mission, and then kind of dissapears into nothing), instead deciding to be a spin off in the middle of a trilogy with hugely disappointing plot progression following the first game, so what happened in 3 is kind of inconsequential after that.
Click to expand...

Well, it was more in reference to the star brat coming out of left field because it was the writers "artistic integrity" to produce "art" at the end (as well as telling players afterwards when the ending was clearly not right, that it's the players fault for not recognising the greatness of their art), as well as removal of everything which put the players in the game of Mass Effect (we have every choice right up until last few minutes), destruction of relays "because it looks great!" vs established lore (destroying those relays blows up the system and nearby ones too as seen in Arrival DLC for ME2, and we just blew up the WHOLE network in the WHOLE galaxy...).

So with Rian and Lucasfilm. There's no problem, it's just you who don't get the films greatness. (First point; "Artistic Integrity", nothing wrong here, move along you plebs...). Then there's throwing away of certain types of lore just to make their own stuff come across better but fails to explain it's actually "different" within their own medium. (Blowing up relays kills everything in the system, but was never made clear in original ME3) But hey, let's Hyperspace into everything, and not only that, Force Ghost fights everyone!.

Anyway, the key infuriating thing is the "Vocal Minority" thing that is being thrown about all the time. And how it's been handled. It's identical to how Bioware handled ME3 ending and that's what I'm primarily about. And some of the stuff above is where you can sort of see the relation between the two franchises. Tired, or I'd write this up better, but it should be OK enough for people to see the relation.
 

VincentHanna

VincentHanna

VincentHanna

Caporegime
Joined
30 Jul 2013
Posts
28,904
It is a minority. Just because it has a low rotten tomatoes/metacritic user score (easy to manipulate) and 100's of YouTube vloggers telling everyone how bad it is.

Cinemascore which polls people who have seen the movie as they come out said people gave it an 'A rating'

I personally had issues with it and didn't think it was all that, but the bubble of the internet gives everyone a false impression of what is fact and what isn't.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom