Starting swimming, any advice?

SKILL · 5 May 2016 at 17:18

Swimming again today for me, so glad I got over the initial self-consciousness and went the first time

Managed to actually get there just before the session today, and a longer session on Thursday means 54 mins total time, 48 mins swimming. Upped the sets from 6 to 10 lengths, hit 52 lengths total (up from 32 both previous times), the last block of 10 was noticeably slower and although I didn't have time for another 10 I set off on some more but it was clear after 2 lengths that I was done

Not sure what my plans are for next week, got the week off work which doesn't really affect going swimming directly but probably planning to go climbing a few more times, and the way swimming affects my arms/shoulders they seem to be mutually exclusive

jpaul · 6 May 2016 at 08:58

Flukester,
Thanks for the example garmin chart, was that a continuous 100 lengths or sets (I usually swim 100's and have never got into sets, although I concede I would push harder, but suspect you just get cold ... it would be more social too)

Do you want heart rate too ? and will get it when it becomes a reliable/economic proposition (I have used heart for both bike and run with chest strap w/phone, and am intrigued whether a heart rate from swimming would reveal - must try harder ?)

[The nearest swimtag pool was 50miles away from me so trying out that technology is out (unless I get on my bike - not driving 50miles.)]

On a slightly different topic elbow pain from front crawl apparently called tedinopathy

does anyone have advice on exercises - I could not understand the exercise that link proposes

With your arm outstretched and elbow straight, hold the dumbbell with palm facing upwards. Curl upwards then control downwards (that's the eccentric bit) repeat x30 or to fatigue.

Hope this kinda explains it. These are for pain on the inside of the elbow. If your pain is on the outside face your palm downwards.

do you start with arm parallel to the ground ? If folks have other exercises that work please tell me

R0B75 · 6 May 2016 at 13:27

My first open water swim tomorrow and first swim in a wetsuit too. It should have been last Saturday but it was cancelled due to it being too cold but no chance of that tomorrow, the weather is going to be glorious. Part excited and part anxious but has anyone got any last minute wisdom for a wetsuit and open water newbie?

Shamrock · 6 May 2016 at 13:38

R0B75 said:
Part excited and part anxious but has anyone got any last minute wisdom for a wetsuit and open water newbie?

Double swim cap for extra warmth if you are like me and freeze in water temps below 20C!

You'll probably find the wetsuit makes you so much more buoyant you'll be mega fast but also you may find shoulder movement a bit restricted.

Get some wetsuit lube or bodyglide to apply to prevent chafing around the neck and ease getting the suit off over your wrists and ankles.

Practice sighting, every 10 or so strokes look forward and look for a landmark. It's harder to swim in a straight line without a line on the floor to follow and you can end up swimming further if snaking about.

That's all I've got, enjoy!

R0B75 · 6 May 2016 at 13:51

Shamrock said:
Double swim cap for extra warmth if you are like me and freeze in water temps below 20C!

You'll probably find the wetsuit makes you so much more buoyant you'll be mega fast but also you may find shoulder movement a bit restricted.

Get some wetsuit lube or bodyglide to apply to prevent chafing around the neck and ease getting the suit off over your wrists and ankles.

Practice sighting, every 10 or so strokes look forward and look for a landmark. It's harder to swim in a straight line without a line on the floor to follow and you can end up swimming further if snaking about.

That's all I've got, enjoy!

Good tips, thank you.

I have 2 swim caps so I shall do that. I do use body glide for running to stop underarm chaffing, I'll make sure I use it round the neck etc.

I have clear goggles but may have to think about getting some tinted ones to help with sighting, but I reckon I'll be zig-zagging all over the shop anyway. Heck, I'm bad enough in the pool

D.P. · 6 May 2016 at 17:29

Flukester said:
Have you thought of using a float between legs ? ....the guy I swim with is slower than me without, but with it I have to grab a 'tow' to keep up. Makes about 10 per 100m difference

Still weird your Garmin is playing up, mine is 100% accurate. Make sure you tag the wall with your non watch hand and rest the hand with the watch... then just a mild push off

That is what I meant, I shoved a pull buoy between my legs and it made a world of difference. Went swimming again to day and alternated 10x25yds front-crawl with and without the float. Averaged around 6:00 minute a set without, and 5:30 with. The biggest difference was how comfortable and easy it was to swim with my hips raised up by the flat, swimming became almost effortless and breathing was so relaxed.

I'm trying to figure why my hips are sinking. biggest issue is probably the catch is not quite right and I am pushing down instead of back as soon as my hand enters the water. But I think there must be several other factors.
I think it doesn't help that I am a sinker. If I exhale and relax in the deep end I sink the bottom of the pool, I'm just skin, bone and muscle right now with all my running.

My running might also contribute to some bad form, e.g. my ankles are very inflexible and although I try to bend them back they probably aren't as flat as I think, that creates extra drag. Similarly my hip flexor are tight, to the point i had a serious running injury 2 months ago. That probably means my kicks are slightly more form the knee than my waist.

My Garmin swim watch is just weird. i wonder if it is very important to have the watch on the outside of your wrist? Strangely today my watch worked way better, until my last set where i was swimming the fastest and smoothest.

Flukester · 6 May 2016 at 18:05

jpaul said:
Flukester,
Thanks for the example garmin chart, was that a continuous 100 lengths or sets (I usually swim 100's and have never got into sets, although I concede I would push harder, but suspect you just get cold ... it would be more social too)

Do you want heart rate too ? and will get it when it becomes a reliable/economic proposition (I have used heart for both bike and run with chest strap w/phone, and am intrigued whether a heart rate from swimming would reveal - must try harder ?)

I try to do continuous... but sometimes I stop a couple of times for a 30sec breather. Depends on qty of wine consumed night before

At lot of people say you should do interval training instead, but seeing as I only do breast stroke I prefer just endurance.

I challenge myself to keep up with the front crawlers, and quite often cheat a little by swimming in a crawlers wake (it reduces my time by around 1.5seconds a length)

I would love a good heart rate monitor, but I think you would need a much more expensive device like a Garmin Flex 3, which I believe they do a swim HR monitor for.

Flukester · 6 May 2016 at 18:10

D.P. said:
That is what I meant, I shoved a pull buoy between my legs and it made a world of difference. Went swimming again to day and alternated 10x25yds front-crawl with and without the float. Averaged around 6:00 minute a set without, and 5:30 with. The biggest difference was how comfortable and easy it was to swim with my hips raised up by the flat, swimming became almost effortless and breathing was so relaxed.

I'm trying to figure why my hips are sinking. biggest issue is probably the catch is not quite right and I am pushing down instead of back as soon as my hand enters the water. But I think there must be several other factors.
I think it doesn't help that I am a sinker. If I exhale and relax in the deep end I sink the bottom of the pool, I'm just skin, bone and muscle right now with all my running.

My running might also contribute to some bad form, e.g. my ankles are very inflexible and although I try to bend them back they probably aren't as flat as I think, that creates extra drag. Similarly my hip flexor are tight, to the point i had a serious running injury 2 months ago. That probably means my kicks are slightly more form the knee than my waist.

My Garmin swim watch is just weird. i wonder if it is very important to have the watch on the outside of your wrist? Strangely today my watch worked way better, until my last set where i was swimming the fastest and smoothest.

Yeah the crawler I swim with uses a float between legs.... without it he is slower than my breast stroke, but with it I struggle to keep up. It's easily worth 2 seconds a length for him when using it

Weird with the watch, try it on outside, I guess it would move a greater distance during stroke... see if you can trail watch hand behind you as you grab on side, then give a good push off

It's kind of rubbish you have to evolve your swim style though to make the watch work 100%

Clum · 7 May 2016 at 23:10

Been getting into 'proper' swimming recently, but finding I am struggling with breathing more than I thought I would.

Im a surfer and diver, so am perfectly happy in the water, and can head up front crawl all day long. Problem I'm finding is that if for whatever reason I miss a breath, I find it extremely difficult to recover from that, leading to an overwhelming feeling of being out of breath and causing my stroke to go to pieces.

Any tips for dealing with this, or is it just something that will come in time/as my swim fitness improves?

Have to say I'm loving it more than I thought I would, as the original idea was just to improve water fitness for surfing. When I go for a run now it feels like I have super lungs with an unlimited oxygen supply!

R0B75 · 8 May 2016 at 20:02

Had my first taste of open water swimming yesterday. It really didn't go well at all.

Turned up and discovered the water temp was 17 degrees which is apparently quite warm. Getting in the water it wasn't bad really, more pleasant than I thought, the problem was it felt like I was hyperventilating and couldn't swim more than a few strokes without needing to stop and tread, or do breast stroke.

I don't know, but I think it was a combination of tightness of a wetsuit which I'm not used to and the cold water. Gradually it got better as I swam my first lap of the 500m loop, but felt a bit panicy all the way around. The other problem was sighting. The buoys were spaced quite far apart and were quite small which made it very difficult to see them so I was constantly going off course and swimming towards the bank.

At the end of the first lap I reached the shallow and tried to get out for a rest and compose myself to go again. However, I stood up and felt horrifically dizzy and couldn't stand or walk for a few minutes. I eventually staggered to the bank and sat down with a coffee and biscuit but that was just horrible.

After a rest and after lots of the other swimmers had empathised and gave me advice on combating my issues I went in for another lap.

This time I swam pretty much all of it freestyle, only stopping to get back on course as sighting was still an issue. However, I still felt very dizzy after, but was better than after the first lap. The only real difference was I kicked more towards the end.

This week I will be buying some ear plugs for open water swimming as I'm told this will help. Right now, I can't see how I'm going to cope with an open water swim in the sea and then try getting out to run to transition. I really hope the ear plugs fix that.

Shamrock · 8 May 2016 at 20:29

Pretty much how my first open water swim went!

Good you got out there early, gives you plenty of time to get used to it before your event.

I consider 17C cold, I won't settle for below 20! The cold water really plays havoc with my breathing and muscles. I see people in speedos when I'm shivering in a tri-suit, wetsuit and double swim caps. :eek:

R0B75 · 8 May 2016 at 20:35

Some people were wearing neoprene caps and socks yesterday. Did you get the dizziness initially with open water swimming?

Shamrock · 8 May 2016 at 20:47

I think so, you just have to take it steady getting out of the water and keep taking the deep breaths. In my first tri I also got leg cramp as I stood up on the ramp that exited the water. I saw a lot of people feeling a bit faint when they exited the reservoir in the Staffordshire Half IM. Luckily, that day I was only doing the relay bike leg.

D.P. · 8 May 2016 at 21:27

Clum said:
Been getting into 'proper' swimming recently, but finding I am struggling with breathing more than I thought I would.

Im a surfer and diver, so am perfectly happy in the water, and can head up front crawl all day long. Problem I'm finding is that if for whatever reason I miss a breath, I find it extremely difficult to recover from that, leading to an overwhelming feeling of being out of breath and causing my stroke to go to pieces.

Any tips for dealing with this, or is it just something that will come in time/as my swim fitness improves?

Have to say I'm loving it more than I thought I would, as the original idea was just to improve water fitness for surfing. When I go for a run now it feels like I have super lungs with an unlimited oxygen supply!

I suffer form this. Although not spending as much time in the sea as you do I am really happy open water swimming and body surfing etc. But put in in a pool and get me doing a work out and I am suddenly way less comfortable being out of breath. In the last 6 months things have got slightly better but its not not super comfortable for me.

D.P. · 8 May 2016 at 21:31

R0B75 said:
Had my first taste of open water swimming yesterday. It really didn't go well at all.

Turned up and discovered the water temp was 17 degrees which is apparently quite warm. Getting in the water it wasn't bad really, more pleasant than I thought, the problem was it felt like I was hyperventilating and couldn't swim more than a few strokes without needing to stop and tread, or do breast stroke.

I don't know, but I think it was a combination of tightness of a wetsuit which I'm not used to and the cold water. Gradually it got better as I swam my first lap of the 500m loop, but felt a bit panicy all the way around. The other problem was sighting. The buoys were spaced quite far apart and were quite small which made it very difficult to see them so I was constantly going off course and swimming towards the bank.

At the end of the first lap I reached the shallow and tried to get out for a rest and compose myself to go again. However, I stood up and felt horrifically dizzy and couldn't stand or walk for a few minutes. I eventually staggered to the bank and sat down with a coffee and biscuit but that was just horrible.

After a rest and after lots of the other swimmers had empathised and gave me advice on combating my issues I went in for another lap.

This time I swam pretty much all of it freestyle, only stopping to get back on course as sighting was still an issue. However, I still felt very dizzy after, but was better than after the first lap. The only real difference was I kicked more towards the end.

This week I will be buying some ear plugs for open water swimming as I'm told this will help. Right now, I can't see how I'm going to cope with an open water swim in the sea and then try getting out to run to transition. I really hope the ear plugs fix that.

Did you wait a few minutes before starting to swim? There is a physiological response that shoots your heart rate up as soon as you enter cold water, also pumps out adrenaline and other hormones, plus can make your body start to reduce blood flow to your limbs to conserve heat. You need to float around in the water for a few minutes and relax before swimming.

jpaul · 9 May 2016 at 10:05

If you have an outdoor Lido to practice in this can be a blessing and a curse, our local will be opening at about 17C I think

D.P. do you have any advice on exercises/web-sites for ensuring hips are higher, a month back I was told the same thing by a master, who said it is most common in men (muscle weight ?)
... the problems is getting this kind of feedback / pictures and advice. (I would pay money to be video'd !)
I had found this site but it is insufficient as is swimsmooth.

R0B75 · 9 May 2016 at 11:25

D.P. said:
Did you wait a few minutes before starting to swim? There is a physiological response that shoots your heart rate up as soon as you enter cold water, also pumps out adrenaline and other hormones, plus can make your body start to reduce blood flow to your limbs to conserve heat. You need to float around in the water for a few minutes and relax before swimming.

I was in the water for a couple of minutes before starting swimming but it wasn't enough clearly.

I have plenty of time to try and combat my issues as there are 2 open water sessions per week, so hopefully by the time I actually do an event I will be ok having used all the advice I'm being given.

D.P. · 9 May 2016 at 12:08

jpaul said:
If you have an outdoor Lido to practice in this can be a blessing and a curse, our local will be opening at about 17C I think

D.P. do you have any advice on exercises/web-sites for ensuring hips are higher, a month back I was told the same thing by a master, who said it is most common in men (muscle weight ?)
... the problems is getting this kind of feedback / pictures and advice. (I would pay money to be video'd !)
I had found this site but it is insufficient as is swimsmooth.

Not found much hell he. Most sources seem to indicate it is a combination of problems and not simple to solve, which is a bit disappointing.

I'm going to be concentrating on the catch. I got a book, "swim speed secrets". Only read the first few chapters but sound great so far. The basic premise is the author (Olympic gold medalist) claims 80% of swim performance is about the catch but most people ignore that and concentrate on making themselves ever so slightly more aerodynamic etc.

My feeling is I'm probably pushing downwards as soon as my hand enters the water, thus pushing my upper body upwards and my hips downwards.

D.P. · 9 May 2016 at 12:09

R0B75 said:
I was in the water for a couple of minutes before starting swimming but it wasn't enough clearly.

I have plenty of time to try and combat my issues as there are 2 open water sessions per week, so hopefully by the time I actually do an event I will be ok having used all the advice I'm being given.

Maybe wetsuit too right and restricts breathing?

D.P. · 11 May 2016 at 21:19

had a great swim and saw a huge improvement.

I normally do 9 sets of 10x25 yds in around 1 hour, my best time being 57:30 minutes, but typically slower than 1 hour. Each set takes around 6 minutes, fastest being 5:50 but often as slow as 6:20.

Today I did my 90 lengths in 52:30, sets in around 5 minutes! Caveat that 2 sets I used a pull buoy and 2 sets I used a swim snorkel to aid with technique. But even the sets with out any aid were done in 5:02 etc.

Recently I have started reading this book: http://www.amazon.com/Swim-Speed-Secrets-Swimmers-Triathletes/dp/1934030880 but onyl just starched the surface on learning about the catch. I definitely felt big changes, being able to push water out the way rather move my arm through the water.

I also got some new swim jammers to replace my standard casual shorts. Strangely I thin this helped the most! I always start with 10x25yd breast to warmup, normally taking around 7:20. Today,. I whipped that set out in a little over 6 minutes I thought I lost count so did 2 more.

I'm guessing that my old swim shorts had far more drag than I imagined, and this drag was also forcing my hips down.

I sill can't comprehend how I could go so much faster, but every set was the same. Heck, 1 set i lost count because it seemed to go by so fast and I ended up doing 12 instead of 10 lengths. (check with garmin).

I definitely felt big changes to my arm stroke, a lot more pressure on deltoids as I was actually getting purchase on the water, but I can;t help but think about the differnece in my breat stroke time which can only be due to changes in swim wear!

Anyone any experience of swimming in standard beach/casual swim shorts complete with baggy pockets, vs an actual tight fighting lyrca swim short?