Suarez

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It's Christmas :p the FA are having time off!
Thats all good and well, but the club and player shouldn't have to be vilified by the press and common football fan. The FA have effectively hung Luis Suarez out to dry with their statement and failure to provide reasoning and evidence for their decision.

So I call you black (when you are clearly white) and thats offensive - yet being called negro (or a derivative) of an OBVIOUSLY offensive word isnt bad at all
Without the released documents from the FA all of this is just speculation, but the consensus is that Evra initiated a conversation insulting Suarez (insulting Suarez's South American origin), in spanish. Suarez responded in spanish. Is saying negro, or a derivative, in that context OBVIOUSLY offensive? No, it's not.
 
When Liverpool are playing so dreadfully WITH Suarez available, rival fans dont have to score any points :D

Oh I dont know, one of the best goalkeepers in the league, best defensive record in the league, higher placed than at this stage last season, and already almost equalled the tally of away points this season as was made in the whole of last season. I'd say they are doing ok :) , just need to stop hitting the woodwork.

(now if we had only bought Keisuke Honda like I suggested :p)
 
Taken from another site, but quite a good article re the cultural differences:

"It was a situation the likes of which one experiences every day in the Argentine capital of Buenos Aires. Lining up behind an attractive, olive-skinned girl in her mid-20s in a store, in the middle of a December heatwave which pushed the mercury towards 37°C and waiting patiently as the stranger bought a box of Marlboro cigarettes. The clerk passed back her change with a smile, and the salutation "Gracias, negra".

A completely innocuous, mundane interaction, but one that stuck in the mind due to the events that followed a matter of minutes later. On the same day, and at almost exactly the same time as that exchange, Uruguayan forward Luis Suarez was receiving an eight match ban for saying the same word to Patrice Evra on the other side of the world in England.

It is not the purpose of this article to assign blame, to condone or crucify Suarez or to call Evra's sterling reputation as a footballer into disrepute. The pair are both professionals at the very top of their chosen career, so to descend into simple conclusions - as the temptation has been for many in the sport and in the media - is lazy and poor journalism. But to every story there is two sides, and in South America and especially Luis' home nation the reaction has been of utter disbelief.

"Senseless", was Sebastian Abreu's word to describe the lengthy suspension, while Uruguay captain Diego Lugano went even further in calling it a "grave error", and accusing Evra of breaking football's unwritten code of what happens on the pitch, stays on the pitch. The Uruguayan government even commented in favour of their striker, but perhaps one of the most considered arguments was provided by Lazio's Alvaro Gonzalez.

"In Uruguay we use terms that can be misinterpreted and all of us who know Luis know that he wouldn't have made the comment as a defamatory remark," he said in quotes published by Ovacion.

"You can't call a Uruguayan racist because of that ... perhaps we are paying the price for going to live in different cultures."

The word in question, negro, understandably appears ugly and bigoted when laid down on paper in English. As demonstrated by the anecdote at the start of this article, however, in Uruguay as in Argentina and much of Latin America it is considered a neutral, even familiar term. Friends, sons, daughters, parents are addressed with the phrase, or its diminutive negrito/a, whether they are from African, mixed-race or even European descent with blue hair and blonde eyes.

It is not the language of politicians or diplomats, admittedly, indeed little one hears inside the lines of a football pitch would be suitable in the debating chamber of the UN. But it is the product of a society and continent in which the process of nation and population-building has made traditional labels almost superfluous.

Some four per cent of the country's three million population claim African descent, a proportion double that of the United Kingdom and not including those of mixed heritage, believed to number around 10%. This group have been settled and integrated in Uruguayan society up to 400 years, and have left an indelible imprint on the nation's culture, music and language. Suarez himself has an Afro-Uruguayan grandfather, and he is carrying on a grand tradition of multiculturalism in the Celeste football team.

Uruguay withstood strong protest to field black players in the 1916 Copa America, a full 63 years before Viv Anderson took the pitch to become England's first black international. The history of the country's football success is littered with great players of African or mixed descent; and many, such as 1950 captain Obdulio Varela, are still remembered fondly as 'El Negro'.

In this context, then, a misunderstanding of intent and a linguistic confusion appears to be the culprit, one for which Luis Suarez has paid for heavily. Is he really expected to know that the Spanish word he has grown up with as neutral and even affectionate his whole life was co-opted by British and American slavers in the 18th century as a synonym for African people, and used frequently until becoming taboo in the 1960s civil rights struggle? It is the content of a university thesis, not an assumption for a 24-year-old footballer adapting to a new country and culture.

That is not to paint Uruguay or Argentina as colour-blind paradises, far from it. Racism and racist comments are no rarer than anywhere else in the world, although more often directed towards nationalities rather than ethnicities. The fact that in Buenos Aires the term Boliviano or Paraguayo when referring to immigrants from that country can be much more pejorative than the word negro is a cultural anomaly hard to interpret for someone unfamiliar with the culture, and migrants from South America are no strangers to similar discrimination elsewhere.

It has been widely reported, for example, that Evra called Suarez a "South American" or "Sudaca" before receiving his perceived insult, and the latter especially is horribly demeaning for those from the continent who have chosen to pursue their lives in Europe. The South American, however, left things on the field, most likely taking the angry exchange as part and parcel of making his living in a testosterone-fuelled atmosphere where tempers often fray.

It is equally unfair to say that Evra, perhaps not versed in the history and etymology of the word in its Spanish, Latin-American context, was wrong to take offence at Suarez's language. There is no place for racial insults, however intended, in modern football with the strides it has taken in extracting this cancer in the last 25 years.

But, as Tim Vickery mentioned in an excellent article on the same subject before the ruling, the FA had a perfect chance to demonstrate their ability to adapt to the demands of modern football. Taking Suarez in front of the board, explaining that such language can be construed in negative ways in England and handing out a light warning would have sent the player a clear message while not castigating him for his linguistic faux pas.

In throwing the book at the Uruguayan, however, the ruling body has demonstrated an ignorance and clumsiness when faced with cultural sensitivities which has made it the object of outrage in one of the world's most inclusive football nations.

Suarez's ban may be another step on the road to the English Premier League's enlightenment when it comes to racial controversies, but it also proves that when faced with a question of cultural understanding and compromise in a globalised football world, their attitude remains indisputably in the stone age."
 
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But, as Tim Vickery mentioned in an excellent article on the same subject before the ruling, the FA had a perfect chance to demonstrate their ability to adapt to the demands of modern football. Taking Suarez in front of the board, explaining that such language can be construed in negative ways in England and handing out a light warning would have sent the player a clear message while not castigating him for his linguistic faux pas.

In throwing the book at the Uruguayan, however, the ruling body has demonstrated an ignorance and clumsiness when faced with cultural sensitivities which has made it the object of outrage in one of the world's most inclusive football nations.

Suarez's ban may be another step on the road to the English Premier League's enlightenment when it comes to racial controversies, but it also proves that when faced with a question of cultural understanding and compromise in a globalised football world, their attitude remains indisputably in the stone age."

Good read, but disagree with the above bit, I think that an example being made sends a much stronger message than the softly softly approach.

Its a minefield. I dont think there can be a winner.
 
When Liverpool are playing so dreadfully WITH Suarez available, rival fans dont have to score any points :D

To be fair he was toss last night and should have been taken off after an hour anyway!



And even as a Liverpool fan I agree that the t-shirts looked utterly ridiculous, although I don't see how they constitute "two fingers to the FA".
 
It just seems like the Liverpool fans are so bothered by this it's untrue. It's not like it will ruin the title challenge now will it?

Bazinga
 
It just seems like the Liverpool fans are so bothered by this it's untrue. It's not like it will ruin the title challenge now will it?

Bazinga

No but it will seriously hinder any chances at a top 4, which is pretty big if we ever want to challenge for the title in the foreseeable future.

What a retarded comment.
 
Laughable how many supporters of other clubs think we should just accept this decision. One of our players has been branded a racist which could ruin his career on the pitch and more importantly his life away from it. If anyone can honestly say they would accept such a charge in their own place of work fair enough but I wouldn't and I expect many others wouldn't either.

I don't agree that this has anything to do with Ferguson or Man United, as a few people have rather embarrassingly mentioned, but I do believe Suarez is just a pawn in the FA's ongoing war with FIFA. If the player in question was English would the FA be so quick to condemn him thus admitting there was a fundamental problem with English players and the English game? I don't believe they would for a second but the fact Suarez is foreign and has caused a number of problems elsewhere makes him an easy target and one the media have set upon in their droves.

The charge against Suarez is as much a two fingered salute to FIFA as our players wearing Suarez shirts was to the FA.
 
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Laughable how many supporters of other clubs think we should just accept this decision. One of our players has been branded a racist which could ruin his career on the pitch and more importantly his life away from it. If anyone can honestly say they would accept such a charge in their own place of work fair enough but I wouldn't and I expect many others wouldn't either.

I don't agree that this has anything to do with Ferguson or Man United, as a few people have rather embarrassingly mentioned, but I do believe Suarez is just a pawn in the FA's ongoing war with FIFA. If the player in question was English would the FA be so quick to condemn him thus admitting there was a fundamental problem with English players and the English game? I don't believe they would for a second but the fact Suarez is foreign and has caused a number of problems elsewhere makes him an easy target and one the media have set upon in their droves.

The charge against Suarez is as much a two fingered salute to FIFA as our players wearing Suarez shirts was to the FA.

Totally agree
 
Laughable how many supporters of other clubs think we should just accept this decision. One of our players has been branded a racist which could ruin his career on the pitch and more importantly his life away from it. If anyone can honestly say they would accept such a charge in their own place of work fair enough but I wouldn't and I expect many others wouldn't either.

I don't agree that this has anything to do with Ferguson or Man United, as a few people have rather embarrassingly mentioned, but I do believe Suarez is just a pawn in the FA's ongoing war with FIFA. If the player in question was English would the FA be so quick to condemn him thus admitting there was a fundamental problem with English players and the English game? I don't believe they would for a second but the fact Suarez is foreign and has caused a number of problems elsewhere makes him an easy target and one the media have set upon in their droves.

The charge against Suarez is as much a two fingered salute to FIFA as our players wearing Suarez shirts was to the FA.


To me it's not about accePting the decision or not it's about how Liverpool have gone about challenging it.

Why not just challenge the decision in the normal way without the rhetoric and cringeworthy tee shirt campaign? At the moment he has been judged to have racially abused a player, liverpools response is to laud the racist? Uncomfortable doesn't cover it.
 
To kind of expand on what No1newts has just said surely any sane Liverpool fan can concede the way their club has gone about defending their player and response to the charges has been totally incorrect?

I'm not on about the T-Shirt's by the way I'm more concerned with the way they've created this siege mentality coupled with making it very much a Liverpool v Man Utd conflict. You only have to glance over other message boards and twitter and you can see the hate campaign's against Evra that have been started off the back of Liverpool's initial statement questioning the credibility of his statement during the proceedings of this case.

It was only last season that Fergie and Dalglish were both appealing to fans to stop the songs about Munich and Hillsborough, any good work done then has surely been undone now. I'd be extremely wary about attending the game between the two in February now not to mention the next time we have to travel to Anfield.

There's no telling how Man Utd would have handled this situation had the shoe been on the other foot but suffice to say I feel Liverpool have gone about their response in a totally incorrect manner.
 
It wouldn't be the UK high court, it would be the CAS which i believe is a (french?) european court.
And again, its not about the ban being overturned, its about the fact the FA said in the hearing "Suarez is not racist", and then some 3 hours after it finishing issuing a statement which basically says "Suarez is racist".
Why shouldn't the player and the club do everything possible to try and clear his name?

Jesus Wept !!!!!!!!!!!!! When will Liverpool Fans look beyond this. Even if we accept that Suarez is not racist, does that stop him saying something that would be considered racist or received in a racist way.

I am a payed up member to Amnesty International, a fervent supporter of Kick Racism out of Football at Junior and Grass roots level. If I was to shout at Old Trafford that I thought Ashley Young was a useless black **** then just because I don't have previous does that mean my comments should be deemed less racist than if I did it with a burning cross in my hand wearing a pointy hat
 
Jesus Wept !!!!!!!!!!!!! When will Liverpool Fans look beyond this. Even if we accept that Suarez is not racist, does that stop him saying something that would be considered racist or received in a racist way.

I am a payed up member to Amnesty International, a fervent supporter of Kick Racism out of Football at Junior and Grass roots level. If I was to shout at Old Trafford that I thought Ashley Young was a useless black **** then just because I don't have previous does that mean my comments should be deemed less racist than if I did it with a burning cross in my hand wearing a pointy hat

Id wear a t-shirt with your face on tbh :nods:









:D
 
The problem is that Liverpool fans can't accept that Suarez might actually have been trying to cause offence, or at least do it to wind him up, and shut it out of their heads, even now that he has been found guilty by people know know more about this than us. I wasn't there but knowing football players it doesn't seem impossible, we all see how they speak to each other, it's rarely nice.

Even if it means mate or whatever half way across the world, he must have known it was close to the wire in England, especially repeating it 10 times, none of us would ever refer to a black person with that term in England, and if you do, good luck.
 
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To kind of expand on what No1newts has just said surely any sane Liverpool fan can concede the way their club has gone about defending their player and response to the charges has been totally incorrect?

I'm not on about the T-Shirt's by the way I'm more concerned with the way they've created this siege mentality coupled with making it very much a Liverpool v Man Utd conflict. You only have to glance over other message boards and twitter and you can see the hate campaign's against Evra that have been started off the back of Liverpool's initial statement questioning the credibility of his statement during the proceedings of this case.

It was only last season that Fergie and Dalglish were both appealing to fans to stop the songs about Munich and Hillsborough, any good work done then has surely been undone now. I'd be extremely wary about attending the game between the two in February now not to mention the next time we have to travel to Anfield.

There's no telling how Man Utd would have handled this situation had the shoe been on the other foot but suffice to say I feel Liverpool have gone about their response in a totally incorrect manner.

Whilst I see what you're saying, I can only presume the strong response is directly linked to how strongly the club and those within the club feel about the ban. Reserving my own judgement until the appeal, where I guess we'll also see whether the club are right to act as they are.

Even if we accept that Suarez is not racist, does that stop him saying something that would be considered racist or received in a racist way.

I do find this interesting, it seems it was accepted early on that Suarez is not a racist, he just said something that could be considered to be racist. One of the reasons really why I'm not that outraged at the ban.

The problem is that Liverpool fans can't accept that Suarez might actually have been trying to cause offence, or at least do it to wind him up, and shut it out of their heads, even now that he has been found guilty by people know know more about this than us. I wasn't there but knowing football players it doesn't seem impossible, we all see how they speak to each other, it's rarely nice.

Funny that we're talking about prejudice and all Liverpool fans are getting tarred with the same brush by ignorant fans from other supporter groups.
 
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