Suarez

jakeke · 22 Dec 2011 at 18:15

Burned_Alive said:
Funny that we're talking about prejudice and all Liverpool fans are getting tarred with the same brush by ignorant fans from other supporter groups.

I was clearly talking about the Liverpool fans it applied to, who can't entertain he might not have been friendly, ever so sorry for not putting 'some' in front. The club aren't helping tbf

Burned_Alive · 22 Dec 2011 at 18:17

jakeke said:
I was clearly talking about the Liverpool fans it applied to, who can't entertain he might not have been friendly, ever so sorry for not putting 'some' in front. The club aren't helping tbf

Well, its all down to how your words are interpreted isn't it.

Pigeon_Killer · 22 Dec 2011 at 18:21

Johnson's currently getting a battering in the media for coming out in support of Suarez but refusing to give the reason for doing so

So, that FA document...

Owenb · 22 Dec 2011 at 18:28

Maybe the reason that Liverpool, especially Kenny, are making such a fuss over this is because it's a great distraction from what is going on on the pitch? It also helps create a siege mentally which managers seem to love so much.

Purdy · 22 Dec 2011 at 18:29

jakeke said:
Even if it means mate or whatever half way across the world, he must have known it was close to the wire in England, especially repeating it 10 times, none of us would ever refer to a black person with that term in England, and if you do, good luck.

Has this been proved he said it 10 times?

Pigeon_Killer · 22 Dec 2011 at 18:34

Owenb said:
Maybe the reason that Liverpool, especially Kenny, are making such a fuss over this is because it's a great distraction from what is going on on the pitch? It also helps create a siege mentally which managers seem to love so much.

I'm sure there's some truth in that but I can't understand why the club are being so aggressive with their backing unless they really do believe there's nothing to this story and the judgement is a complete farce.

If we're wrong the owners (who said they would kick out any player found guilty of racism), the club, Kenny, the players and supporters will lose every ounce of credibility and we will forever be labelled as a club who backed a racist. We've got so much to lose from this it doesn't even bare thinking about.

BaZ87 · 22 Dec 2011 at 18:43

I can't believe Paul McGrath has the cheek to have a go at Johnson for wearing a t-shirt in support of Suarez when he said the following after Ron Atkinson called Desailly a lazy ******:

Well, Ron's old school, I have to say that. But Jesus, he's one of the furthest men away from being a racist." A further pause. "He might say the odd word that makes you think 'Jesus, what's happening here?' He had this thing in training, where he'd say 'it's the coons against the rest'. But we'd just laugh about it. And the so-called coons had a good team - me, Yorkie [Dwight Yorke], Dalian Atkinson, Cyrille Regis - so we were delighted. Never once would any of us have taken exception.

joxang · 22 Dec 2011 at 18:48

Wow, and I thought Man utd fans were great at getting a siege mentality thing going

.

Seriously though. Personally I have no doubt that Suarez was trying to cause offence using racially charged/racist language. Evra's probably guilty of the same thing, but that doesn't make either of them racist as a person. The problem in this case is that Evra has come out and whined about it.

Also to everyone saying the use of the 'negro' equivalent in Latin countries is commonplace, it's a word that swings two ways. You can use it affectionately, but you can also use it insultingly. They don't have a separate 'n' word there so it's all about context. In this case, it was obviously a racial insult.

Pigeon_Killer · 22 Dec 2011 at 18:50

BaZ87 said:
I can't believe Paul McGrath has the cheek to have a go at Johnson for wearing a t-shirt in support of Suarez when he said the following after Ron Atkinson called Desailly a lazy ******:

Xenophobic and selective with his hate of racism. That's so ****** up it's almost unbelievable.

Purdy · 22 Dec 2011 at 18:50

joxang said:
Wow, and I thought Man utd fans were great at getting a siege mentality thing going .

Seriously though. Personally I have no doubt that Suarez was trying to cause offence using racially charged/racist language. Evra's probably guilty of the same thing, but that doesn't make either of them racist as a person. The problem in this case is that Evra has come out and whined about it.

Also to everyone saying the use of the 'negro' equivalent in Latin countries is commonplace, it's a word that swings two ways. You can use it affectionately, but you can also use it insultingly. They don't have a separate 'n' word there so it's all about context. In this case, it was obviously a racial insult.

I don't get how you know the context or what actually was said or happened at all if there is zero evidence been shown to the public.

atpbx · 22 Dec 2011 at 18:54

Alpherah said:
It wouldn't be the UK high court, it would be the CAS which i believe is a (french?) european court.

Swiss.

and its an independant arbitration panel that just has "court" in its title.

joxang · 22 Dec 2011 at 18:56

Purdy said:
I don't get how you know the context or what actually was said or happened at all if there is zero evidence been shown to the public.

Yeh, Evra flings words at Suarez, Suarez flings words back. Sounds like a tea party :rolleyes:

. You really think Suarez used the word at Evra in a nice 'affectionate' way?

Hell I don't think Suarez should be punished. And if he is, I think Evra should be too. But I think that to deny that Suarez made a racially charge insult at Evra is just being a bit blinkered.

DiCe! · 22 Dec 2011 at 18:58

Purdy said:
I don't get how you know the context or what actually was said or happened at all if there is zero evidence been shown to the public.

Neither have you...yet you back him so ferociously!

Purdy · 22 Dec 2011 at 18:59

joxang said:
Yeh, Evra flings words at Suarez, Suarez flings words back. Sounds like a tea party . You really think Suarez used the word at Evra in a nice 'affectionate' way?

Hell I don't think Suarez should be punished. And if he is, I think Evra should be too. But I think that to deny that Suarez made a racially charge insult at Evra is just being a bit blinkered.

Okay, so where did Suarez say this word, where is the evidence?

Also from watching the match, there was only one player ever wound up as he was getting shown up by Suarez for the second time on the pitch. From that there is every chance Suarez could have been 'whats your problem mate?' and it wouldn't really have been a racially charged insult, rather a question.

That said, if he did racially abuse him with intention to offend he should be banned, 8 matches though, that is hilarious considering the last ban was 3 matches for a player who actually admitted to calling him a 'n*****' i believe baz posted yesterday.

Purdy · 22 Dec 2011 at 19:00

DiCe! said:
Neither have you...yet you back him so ferociously!

Innocent till proven guilty, no?

(With evidence

)

joxang · 22 Dec 2011 at 19:01

Purdy said:
Okay, so where did Suarez say this word, where is the evidence?

Also from watching the match, there was only one player ever wound up as he was getting shown up by Suarez for the second time on the pitch. From that there is every chance Suarez could have been 'whats your problem mate?' and it wouldn't really have been a racially charged insult, rather a question.

That said, if he did racially abuse him with intention to offend he should be banned, 8 matches though, that is hilarious considering the last ban was 3 matches for a player who actually admitted to calling him a 'n*****' i believe baz posted yesterday.

I agree with the 8 match ban being stupidly excessive, but for you to say that "there is every chance Suarez could have (just said) 'whats your problem mate?'" is so straw-clutching it's ridiculous.

Purdy · 22 Dec 2011 at 19:05

joxang said:
I agree with the 8 match ban being stupidly excessive, but for you to say that "there is every chance Suarez could have (just said) 'whats your problem mate?'" is so straw-clutching it's ridiculous.

It is, but saying he used a racially motivated insult is also with absolutely **** all evidence, all we saw was Evra being wound up and Suarez pretty lax around the referee and in the box.

For all you know he could have said he had a tiny penis.(and me also)

Stewy · 22 Dec 2011 at 19:06

Purdy said:
It is, but saying he used a racially motivated insult is also with absolutely **** all evidence, all we saw was Evra being wound up and Suarez pretty lax around the referee and in the box.

For all you know he could have said he had a tiny penis.(and me also)

but... Evra is black so...

Purdy · 22 Dec 2011 at 19:08

Stewy said:
but... Evra is black so...

Oh, good point

edit: wait am i being racist?

Adrianr · 22 Dec 2011 at 19:13

Owenb said:
Maybe the reason that Liverpool, especially Kenny, are making such a fuss over this is because it's a great distraction from what is going on on the pitch? It also helps create a siege mentally which managers seem to love so much.

I typed this reply yesterday nearly word for word, then assumed given the rather reactionary nature of the posting I would be best off leaving it well alone (someone will still quote this with a load of abuse and prove me correct no doubt

). But frankly it wouldn't surprise me if come the end of the season, when I don't believe Liverpool will be in the top 4, this situation will provide and be used as a handy scapegoat to cover some glaring deficiencies and a very poor foray into the transfer market. There is a question mark over how they will perform without Suarez, but the reality is they're not doing enough with Suarez.

With that in mind it's not really surprising how loud the club are being about the issue. It may not be deliberate, but I think we'll see this one surfacing again at the end of the season.