I would imagine the box will make much more of a difference than the clio (etc) engine would - drop that engine into the car with the same auto box and i'll bet it would be equally as disappointing.
Subaru-powered Toyota FT-86 gets closer to production...
- Thread starter DreXeL
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I would imagine the box will make much more of a difference than the clio (etc) engine would - drop that engine into the car with the same auto box and i'll bet it would be equally as disappointing.
Im not so sure it makes a difference, its more about setting the car up around the engine.
A zonda seems to get on ok with a ******* huge merc 7.3 v12
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Hmm I do know what you're getting at but would say it's far more important to get into the gear you want, when you want, as quickly as you want. I doubt you'd notice the difference in torque to be honest - if the toyobaru was 100kg lighter you'd probably notice zero difference to the clio with its st'd engine in - it's impossible to get an idea without seeing the actual curves mind you.
Nobody has really missed that, there's is no doubt its a good handing car, it does what it was supposed to great, the issue is that its slow for what it is and it seems like they made it do what it was supposed to and then left it at that instead of seeing what else it could do.
Im not sure if im making sense there, its a good car, but having better performance and thus the "full package" would have made it a great car, on the same level as ones like the 200SX, Supra, etc that are still held in high regard today.
The is a middle ground between "super fast" and getting beaten at the lights by some rep mobiles though.
Comparisons to the Supra are far from a non-issue as the GT-86 has the same drive train, the same bhp, the same 0-60, is a coupé roughly the same size, handles well and also uses an N/A engine.
Secondly the Toyota AE86 (AKA Corolla) was not a sports car, it was a lightweight hatch comparable to an Astra/Escort its party tricks that got it its place in history were that it was RWD, handled well and Like the Honda CRX had a great power to weight ratio (depending on options and the engine it could have >100bhp/ton).
Indeed, a diesel saloon with a 2 litre would give it serious problems when rolling.
I get the impression toyota/subaru know the engine is a bit lacking low down and tried to counter than by fitting a super short gearbox that can only hit 58 in second. Which to me seems very short indeed
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Soldato
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I cant stop raising my palm to my face
The cars purpose is obvious, and its definately not racing traffic light grand prix with rep mobile's
The cars purpose is obvious, and its definately not racing traffic light grand prix with rep mobile's
Soldato
Blimey what have I started 
Soldato
No one is disputing that but the engine has been proven to be quite weak, regarding power band and torque. Most reviews support this too but hey I haven't driven one yet so who am I to know
Soldato
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From what I've read the engine fit for its purpose, they're explaining that a lot of people wont get on with it if they're after straight line performance
Book a test drive, everybody else is and the dealers seem more than happy to whore out they're demo models
Book a test drive, everybody else is and the dealers seem more than happy to whore out they're demo models
Soldato
Shorter and lower boxer engine is fundamental to the complete from end package!
An I4 would have compromised the pedal package and driver down vision potentially leading to higher seating point and poorer road positioning with the sight lines offered.
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Right to some up the arguements in here, from a GT-86 lovers perspective:
Yes, it won't set the world on fire with its power and 0-60 time. Do people really care about 0-60's and powaaaa in real world driving situations? No.
Is this one of the best drivers cars around at the moment? Yes
However, the rumour is that Subaru have said there will be a turbocharged version of the 2.0 engine.
Yes, it won't set the world on fire with its power and 0-60 time. Do people really care about 0-60's and powaaaa in real world driving situations? No.
Is this one of the best drivers cars around at the moment? Yes
However, the rumour is that Subaru have said there will be a turbocharged version of the 2.0 engine.
Soldato
Personally I like a quick 0-60 time, I like the feel of quick acceleration 
Don't get me wrong I think its a good car because it does what its supposed to very very well, but great cars also do things their not supposed to. God that sounds stupid even to me lol.
Ok ill try one last time to explain where I'm coming from via a computer analogy, if Nvidia released a brand new GFX card promising fantastic DX11 performance then delivered on it that would be doing what it was supposed to, but if it turned out the card had OpenGL performance on par with an Intel chip then it would be a deal breaker for people who care about OpenGL.
Nobody expected the car to be a super sonic drag racing stallion, that's not the point of it, but the fact it can't out drag some 20 year old Hondas is a tad disappointing.
Tbh I think you just need to accept that out and out acceleration is not the intent - I'm keen to drive it and see how I find it, who knows maybe ill agree.
The 20 year old car thing is a bit silly though - you can pick many cars that are 20ish years old that will give most modern cars a fright in a straight line
The 20 year old car thing is a bit silly though - you can pick many cars that are 20ish years old that will give most modern cars a fright in a straight line
Eliot, have you seen/got a link to a full dyno graph? Comparing two peak torque figures in respect to the rev limiter is utterly pointless as a comparison, the shape of the torque curve is the important bit.
That's not to say it's a great engine but from my brief test drive I wouldn't say a lack of low down torque was the problem, at low-med revs it felt quite good, if anything the problem was that there was no 'life' at the top end, no real eagerness to rev.
That's not to say it's a great engine but from my brief test drive I wouldn't say a lack of low down torque was the problem, at low-med revs it felt quite good, if anything the problem was that there was no 'life' at the top end, no real eagerness to rev.
Soldato
I see what your saying, but Toyota went in making this with a certain ethos and I think they've made a brave choice for not going all out with the power. The motoring world seems to have gone obsessed with power and speed, partly thanks to the ridiculous BHP wars between German marques. This car seems to go back to the simple basics of having a lightweight, great handling, RWD sport cars that focuses purely on driver engagement, not too dissimilar to the MX5 in some ways.
If they should've added more power etc to it, how much should that car have? and how much before it starts effecting the overall drive and dynamics of the car.
But it wouldn't suprise me if Toyota or Subaru release a more powerful turbocharged top the range model, make sense to have it, that way it caters to a wider audience.
I would still disagree with the comparison to the Supra. The Supra is different in ethos and standing to the FT86, as far as model positioning goes, its more in the Celica segment, if Toyota made a new Supra then I would expect that to be the fast and brutal sports car in the range.
As for the AE86, without getting too pedantic on terminologies, it might not have been a traditional sports car, but you know what I mean...they are very similar in philosophy and thats where Toyota got the their inspiration from, they also did a coupe version of the AE86.
Gotta say both those American ones look great, but the photos posted above look meh.
I heard on the radio that Subaru here only had 200 in the country here, sold them all online for list price at $37000 within 5 hours (because the website bombed initially) to people without the ability to test drive them or even see them in the metal.
Only problem they may have now is, no more Subarus shipping until the end of the year, surely they will just lose out to Toyota.....
I heard on the radio that Subaru here only had 200 in the country here, sold them all online for list price at $37000 within 5 hours (because the website bombed initially) to people without the ability to test drive them or even see them in the metal.
Only problem they may have now is, no more Subarus shipping until the end of the year, surely they will just lose out to Toyota.....
Soldato
drove one today, gotta say the engine doesn't feel lacking.
Handling is superb though, sticks like **** to fur but is easy to control if you over cook it.
I drove the manual version, gearbox is nice and slick. Clutch travel feels quite long though and is light.
Do like.
Handling is superb though, sticks like **** to fur but is easy to control if you over cook it.
I drove the manual version, gearbox is nice and slick. Clutch travel feels quite long though and is light.
Do like.