DM, this season Rosicky has had a marked improvement in performances, especially over the last 2 months. Yes, he could have been playing for a contract and he might go back to being average, but to call him anonymous this season is silly, he's our only CM who can turn on the ball
** Summer Transfer Window 2012/2013 Season Rumours/Signings **
- Thread starter Tom84
- Start date
- Status
Consigliere
- Joined
- 12 Jun 2004
- Posts
- 151,030
- Location
- SW17
So because he has done alright over the last 2 months, he deserves a new contract? 99% of the time he doesn't do a lot. Yes, this season he has got a bit better but he has been at Arsenal for what, 6 years?
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
He has neither done alright over the past two months, nor was he even particularly good against Spurs nor Milan, better than normal, but the bar on normal for him was so low that still didn't make a good performance.
This seems to be one of the biggest problems in football, someone is utterly worthless for years, puts in TWO less bad performances and people compare to their usual form, not a generally average performance, he's markedly improved from his usual uselessness, which is still well below an average decent player in the league and miles from good enough for a top four team. Cheap contract, much MUCH more reliable, rotation player, sure. First team wage, for a player who is incredibly unreliable no, and that would be IF he was playing well, he's not.
Only player than can turn on the ball, rubbish, also doesn't much matter, Arteta, generally playing in the DM role is fully capable of turning but generally doesn't as its much riskier to get caught out as the DM than ACM further up the pitch. The problem with Rosicky is, he turns on the ball, runs a few yards.......... then fluffs his pass most of the time.
It's also hilarious how TWO games turns into two months, he was horrific, really really awful in the first leg at milan. We played very poorly, and Rosicky specifically was very poor against Sunderland where we scrapped a win through, mostly fluke.
He's done smeg all for 3 years, had a promising but NOT outstanding first season and a bunch of injury ridden years inbetween. As happens far too often, a good result and everyone just randomly assigns credit to all players involved.
He is NOT worth a big wage, he will not play every game in a season, he's still injury prone, he has zero consistency and has probably put in maybe, being generous 10 performances in the past THREE YEARS that would be worthy of a top 6 team.
He's exactly the kind of current mediocrity that Arsenal need to improve upon to improve the team.
This seems to be one of the biggest problems in football, someone is utterly worthless for years, puts in TWO less bad performances and people compare to their usual form, not a generally average performance, he's markedly improved from his usual uselessness, which is still well below an average decent player in the league and miles from good enough for a top four team. Cheap contract, much MUCH more reliable, rotation player, sure. First team wage, for a player who is incredibly unreliable no, and that would be IF he was playing well, he's not.
Only player than can turn on the ball, rubbish, also doesn't much matter, Arteta, generally playing in the DM role is fully capable of turning but generally doesn't as its much riskier to get caught out as the DM than ACM further up the pitch. The problem with Rosicky is, he turns on the ball, runs a few yards.......... then fluffs his pass most of the time.
It's also hilarious how TWO games turns into two months, he was horrific, really really awful in the first leg at milan. We played very poorly, and Rosicky specifically was very poor against Sunderland where we scrapped a win through, mostly fluke.
He's done smeg all for 3 years, had a promising but NOT outstanding first season and a bunch of injury ridden years inbetween. As happens far too often, a good result and everyone just randomly assigns credit to all players involved.
He is NOT worth a big wage, he will not play every game in a season, he's still injury prone, he has zero consistency and has probably put in maybe, being generous 10 performances in the past THREE YEARS that would be worthy of a top 6 team.
He's exactly the kind of current mediocrity that Arsenal need to improve upon to improve the team.
thats what I was thinking earlier (eidt - I saw some dodgy link from NewsNow stating he had "signed" a new contract)
As I believe most agree that SAF doesnt care that much about Europa league, I wonder if PP will start on Thursday?
wrong game for him in my opinion. He looks sublime in the reserves but if you watch him he's still quite raw positionally, with Bilbao's movement and pressing he'd potentially be exposed.
He has all the talent but he just needs a few more games when he comes on with 20-30 minutes to go first.
He has all the talent but he just needs a few more games when he comes on with 20-30 minutes to go first.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 37,804
- Location
- block 16, cell 12
It is interesting that welbeck has as few goals as suarez in the league (although to be fair he has played less minutes too).
But if you take into account the fact that UTD are a much more free scoring team - having scored, what, twice the number of goals liverpool have in the league?
Once this is understood we can move to phase 2, and pan not just Suarez, but also Welbeck?
But if you take into account the fact that UTD are a much more free scoring team - having scored, what, twice the number of goals liverpool have in the league?
Once this is understood we can move to phase 2, and pan not just Suarez, but also Welbeck?
No. Welbeck is only 21 and cost the club nothing. Suarez is 25 and cost Liverpool 23m. It's not hard to see which player should be doing better than the other.
I've got a phase 2 for you though, you stop posting anything related to Manchester United
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
I have no idea where the hype is over Welbeck, he had a very short what 8 game spell where he got 4-5 goals, and suddenly is the next big thing.
Too many people watch reserves or hear the hype around reserves, the ridiculous number of young strikers who are putting in 20goals + a year in reserves who hit first team and get 5 or less and end up in league 1 is a joke. Reserve football is a complete and utter joke.
Welbeck looks ackward to me, as a striker he hasn't shown a whole lot of anything. The odd nice finish, that goes for any player, he missed a complete sitter yesterday and a couple chances to shoot when just about any other striker would have.
Was it early this season he did a really quite brilliant backheel to set someone else up with the shot, that was promising, and if you saw him do something similar in most games you would consider it part of his game. But that was basically the one and only time I've seen him do something really outside the box and inventive/creative. Once doesn't mean diddly, every game is very different. He's had over the past couple years a couple great performances, a few good ones, and a bunch of mediocre ones where he's missed easy chances and his passing and interplay looks "meh".
If the league were any good, or Fergie didn't seem to hate Berbatov I don't think Welbeck would get more than a few cup game starts at Utd.
Too many people watch reserves or hear the hype around reserves, the ridiculous number of young strikers who are putting in 20goals + a year in reserves who hit first team and get 5 or less and end up in league 1 is a joke. Reserve football is a complete and utter joke.
Welbeck looks ackward to me, as a striker he hasn't shown a whole lot of anything. The odd nice finish, that goes for any player, he missed a complete sitter yesterday and a couple chances to shoot when just about any other striker would have.
Was it early this season he did a really quite brilliant backheel to set someone else up with the shot, that was promising, and if you saw him do something similar in most games you would consider it part of his game. But that was basically the one and only time I've seen him do something really outside the box and inventive/creative. Once doesn't mean diddly, every game is very different. He's had over the past couple years a couple great performances, a few good ones, and a bunch of mediocre ones where he's missed easy chances and his passing and interplay looks "meh".
If the league were any good, or Fergie didn't seem to hate Berbatov I don't think Welbeck would get more than a few cup game starts at Utd.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
No. Welbeck is only 21 and cost the club nothing. Suarez is 25 and cost Liverpool 23m. It's not hard to see which player should be doing better than the other.
I've got a phase 2 for you though, you stop posting anything related to Manchester United
That's fair enough, for sure and I agree you expect a lot more out of a starting striker who cost 23mil and also one who has scored 30+ goals in a season for Ajax before(I know he had one great season there at least, I'm assuming it was 30+ goals). You'd also expect less from a younger cheaper player.
However, I'd also expect a starting striker at Utd, top of the league, to be better than a starting striker for Liverpool, 7th in the league.
Welbeck has played a more than good number of games for Utd this year, I'd frankly expect a lot more from someone deemed good enough for that number of starts at Utd.
berbatov cost nearly £31m and hasn't been able to get a look in for well over a year now but has a good, proven goal scoring record and is in all honesty, a far better player than welbeck. does ferguson not like him?
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 37,804
- Location
- block 16, cell 12
No. Welbeck is only 21 and cost the club nothing. Suarez is 25 and cost Liverpool 23m. It's not hard to see which player should be doing better than the other.
I've got a phase 2 for you though, you stop posting anything related to Manchester United
That actually doesnt matter. he gets picked as first choice, n Rooney is off. or second choice when rooney is fit.
Fact is it is the opportunity cost of playing welbeck, when infact you have a 30 million pound 20 goal a season player on the bench, or could buy any other striker who would presumably do just as good.
iev said it before, he should be coming on in games 2-0 like pogba did. Not starting games we need to win.
It is ultimate the decision to play welbeck, not the size of the transfer that is most problematic. he takes up 1 space of a starting 11 same as any value player. The expectation, as DM stated is that someone who starts for us should be more than simply 'capable' which is how id describe welbeck.
Last edited:
That seems to be the case. It's incredibly bizarre.
The last few games Berbatov has played he's done very well and ultimately, he is a better player than Welbeck.
Welbeck has played out wide a few times, and (SAF hopes) he is one for the future, along with Chicharito - Berba only plays in one position (and could be argued , most of the time also lathargicly lol)
If one or both werent producing the chances / shots on goal than fair enough, give Berba a game, but at the moment they are and there is no reason to give Berba the pitch time (with no FA Cup/European games to seriously be concerned about) when the club will get more benefit long term by giving the younger strikers appearances
I have to admit Im not sure why SAF didnt sell Berba last season and get in another young striker - rather than sitting a hefty investment on the bench for the small amount of appearances he had but hey ho
edit its quite amazing how short people's memories are, it needs to be stated that in only ONE season out of four (ok , ignoring this one as Berba hasnt been given the game time, so lets call it 3 seasons) has Berba had a "proven " goal scoring record at Utd. The other two he was utter dross for majority of the time - and even in his good season, there were many many games where he didnt show up /barely contributed etc etc - it also has to be said that the one blackburn game where he scored 5 on his own flatters his total for that season (and I think in three games he got 10 of his 20 goals)........how ever good his total was, that also shows the bad part to relying on Berba ......he worked BRILLIANTLY for Spurs alongside Keane, but for Utd it didnt really work
Last edited:
it is bizarre indeed and there's talk of a one year extension. berbatov should be telling united to stick it. he's blown a year of his prime on the bench.
if anything, it's unfair. berbatov is in the autumn of his career, has shown what he can do. welbeck should have to earn his starts, what's he done to earn a start over berbatov? welbeck obviously has more energy but that's even more of a reason to bring him on as sub and start berbatov.
berbatov wouldn't look out of place in a barcelona shirt, welbeck would. feel a bit sorry for the bloke tbh. we are being denied the chance to watch a clinical finisher.
I believe its already done (it was always upto Utd to say yes - rather than the player from what I understand).
Sorry but he is beyond his prime - still a good player for a 6-10 team in the EPL or a euro team somewhere, but not in his prime at 31.
(I said 6 -10 because I cant see any of the current top 5/6 wanting him for anything more than what Utd do, so why move?)
Autumn is a good description , rather than Prime
Welbeck proved his worth at Sunderland last year, and Utd need to acclimatise him into the team /squad and give him a fair chance - just like the two seasons Berba got before really proving anything at Utd , so why not give a MUCH younger /less experienced player at least the same chance - especially a homegrown one (the latteer possibly why Utd, with their injuries this season, might have HAD to include Welbeck on occasion over Berba).
BOLLLLLLLLLLL@ Berba at Barca - when he shows his skill yes , ok maybe occasionally, but Im sorrry no chance at all on majority of his displays, never gonna happen. He would be left for dead the way Barca move
oppps sorry Rotty hadnt seen your post while I was typing
i thought we weren't allowed to do that though?
correct
- Status