The only way it's possible (but still far from certain) that Coutinho gets sold is if Barca pay mega money and that's far from certain to happen. As for VvD, I think we might be underestimating how unwilling Southampton are to deal with us. Twitter has been linking to a Southampton forum and their fans would rather cut their legs off than sell another player to us. As mental as our fans would be if we sold Coutinho, I think their fans would be far worse if Southampton backed down and sold VvD to us..
Summer Transfer Window 2017/18 - Rumours & Signings
- Thread starter BaZ87
- Start date
Very few players will refuse to play once the window's closed, especially with a World Cup coming. If Southampton point blank refuse to deal, come the 1st September some sort of apology will be given and he'll be back playing. As I said last night, the other possible problem could be VvD blinks first and accepts a move elsewhere. As much as it's been reported he wants to join us over whoever else, if it gets to the point where the window is about to close and Southampton accept an offer from Chelsea (for example), does he turn it down hoping a deal to Liverpool can happen or will he take it? He takes it imo.
Other than City's and Chelsea's, name another owner of a PL side that's put more money into their club than FSG have. This idea that FSG are tight and penny pinch is complete and utter *******s. They're not perfect but there's never been an issue of a lack of investment. Their problem has been the people they've allowed to spend the money and the structure of the club. Initially we had Comolli going rogue which cost him his job and then we had the transfer committee and Rodgers wanting to do two completely different things.
Both of those previous issues have been solved. The issue we're facing now is that we have a manager that will not panic buy. He won't just sign any old player and if he can't get the players he absolutely wants then he'll rather make do with what he has or rely on youth players. As I've said before, this is the manager that we all wanted and were made up when he got the job - you can't pick and choose which parts of him you want to have and which parts you don't.
I've not assumed anything. I just keep seeing people complaining about the owners in regards to not buying player - the decision is Klopp's! The money is there for him and if we don't sign somebody it would be because Klopp decided that if Southampton/Red Bull won't sell, I'd rather go with what I have.
Anyway, reports tonight are saying that Barca have offered £90m for Coutinho, it's been rejected and they've been told he's not for sale:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...t-second-barcelona-bid-philippe-coutinho-90m/
Why would they be? Given the way fees have gone and with the potential for PSG to be in the mix next summer, his value isn't going to drop much if at all. Coutinho for another season is worth far more to us than potentially losing £10m or so. And that's only a potential loss - I wouldn't bet against his value increasing next summer. He was threatening to have an outstanding season last season prior to his injury and the way he played at the end of last season, he was making everything look easy. He could have a real breakthrough season and if PSG were to be in the market too, the sky is then the limit.
Of course they will and once he tears the league up next season they'll want him more. It's already been rumoured that PSG are interested and even talk that Neymar (he and Coutinho are very close friends) has personally requested they try to sign him but with his deal and a bid for Mbappe even they can't swing that one.
As I keep saying, it's going to take a lot more than what's been offered for us to sell Coutinho this summer and even then, it might take Coutinho to pull a VvD too before we'd agree. His value isn't going to decrease, certainly not by enough to justify losing him for the season and not when we're having difficulties signing our main targets this window.
As I keep saying, it's going to take a lot more than what's been offered for us to sell Coutinho this summer and even then, it might take Coutinho to pull a VvD too before we'd agree. His value isn't going to decrease, certainly not by enough to justify losing him for the season and not when we're having difficulties signing our main targets this window.
£90m - the same as what Utd paid for Lukaku, the day the world went mad.
So basically Rose knows a Utd bid is incoming and he's creating a scenario where it makes it easier/puts more pressure on Spurs to sell him. Normally players wait until a bid has been rejected before they kick up a fuss, just shows you how desperate he must be to leave.
On a separate note, you've got to feel sorry for Eriksen. He's seen City blow £50m on Walker, Utd want Dier and Rose, and he's even come out and said he'd want to join Barca but nobody is bidding for him. Maybe if Barca can't get Coutinho and their 2nd, 3rd and 4th choices they might eventually turn to Eriksen. Hopefully Spurs don't stand in these players way - all they'll be competing for with Spurs is a CL spot where as they could go to big clubs and challenge for titles.
I think if Liverpool can't sign VvD they should turn their attentions to Alderweireld and rescue him from his Tottenham hell. We'll pay him what he deserves.
On a separate note, you've got to feel sorry for Eriksen. He's seen City blow £50m on Walker, Utd want Dier and Rose, and he's even come out and said he'd want to join Barca but nobody is bidding for him. Maybe if Barca can't get Coutinho and their 2nd, 3rd and 4th choices they might eventually turn to Eriksen. Hopefully Spurs don't stand in these players way - all they'll be competing for with Spurs is a CL spot where as they could go to big clubs and challenge for titles.
I think if Liverpool can't sign VvD they should turn their attentions to Alderweireld and rescue him from his Tottenham hell. We'll pay him what he deserves.
Klopp's given an interview in Germany where he talks about Barca's pursuit of Coutinho:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...could-tempt-liverpool-sell-philippe-coutinho/
He says there is no price which would force us to sell. He admits that no player is 'untouchable' but that it's a matter of timing too and hinted that our inability to be able to replace him is part of the reason why we won't sell, regardless of what Barca offer.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...could-tempt-liverpool-sell-philippe-coutinho/
He says there is no price which would force us to sell. He admits that no player is 'untouchable' but that it's a matter of timing too and hinted that our inability to be able to replace him is part of the reason why we won't sell, regardless of what Barca offer.
Let's get this thread back on track.
It appears as if Barca are using the same tactics with Dembele & Dortmund as they've tried with Coutinho & Liverpool. Lots of reports originating from Spain claiming a deal for Dembele was imminent and would be announced in a matter of hours, however Dortmund have released a statement confirming a bid was made but that it didn't reflect Dembele's ability or the state of the transfer market and as such has been rejected.
There have been reports saying that Barca want Coutinho to kick up a fuss to make a transfer more likely, which as yet hasn't happened however it seems like Dembele is more willing to play ball. Dortmund's coach confirmed that Dembele didn't turn up for training today.
It appears as if Barca are using the same tactics with Dembele & Dortmund as they've tried with Coutinho & Liverpool. Lots of reports originating from Spain claiming a deal for Dembele was imminent and would be announced in a matter of hours, however Dortmund have released a statement confirming a bid was made but that it didn't reflect Dembele's ability or the state of the transfer market and as such has been rejected.
There have been reports saying that Barca want Coutinho to kick up a fuss to make a transfer more likely, which as yet hasn't happened however it seems like Dembele is more willing to play ball. Dortmund's coach confirmed that Dembele didn't turn up for training today.
These values (not that Liverpool have placed a value on Coutinho's head) are based on the prices of transfers that have been paid and what it would cost to sign a replacement. Utd have committed to spending £90m on Lukaku - nobody can argue that Coutinho or Dembele aren't better players/better prospects than Lukaku. £50m on Kyle Walker - same story. Liverpool tried to sign Keita from Red Bull and were willing to spend over £70m on him but Red Bull were having nothing of it - this is a player that's had 1 season of top flight football in a decent league.
If either Dortmund or Liverpool sold, who would like sign to replace either player? Anybody they go for either won't be nearly as good or will cost far more. I look back at when we signed Salah and £35-40m seemed fairly expensive. If we sold Coutinho and been trying to sign Salah now we'd be paying £50m+. Selling clubs will always point to the transfer fees of other players when making their demands and it's not something new either. I can remember Villa demanding £18m for Barry because that's what Liverpool paid for Mascherano.
I think we're reaching a stage where so many clubs have so much money that the only way you can buy somebody for a reasonable fee is if their contract is almost up or you have a willing seller. Very few clubs need to sell players any more.
Everybody interested in Barkley are just waiting for the last week or so of the window and hoping Everton back down on their £50m asking price. It's one thing paying ott when there's no pressure on the selling club to sell but there is pressure on Everton. Come the 27th, if Spurs or Chelsea offer £25m Everton are left with a big decision to make.
Attacking players in general cost more, not specifically strikers. Coutinho scored or assisted 20 goals last season in 2/3's of the game time that Lukaku played and that was from a midfield/attacking midfield position. You think if Hazard was available he wouldn't be worth much more than Lukaku because he didn't score as many?
edit: even Neymar didn't score as many as Lukaku. Utd got a bargain
Oh, I don't dispute that. They've signed Lukaku because he's a safe bet even if he doesn't have the potential to be a real superstar. That doesn't make him worth more than Coutinho though and undoubtedly, if Liverpool were willing sellers, they'd point to his fee and other equally expensive fees when making their demands.
FSG have announced that they'll consider a huge offer for Coutinho, despite the managers wishes:
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/271620-fsg-statement-on-philippe-coutinho
Greedy yanks!
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/271620-fsg-statement-on-philippe-coutinho
Greedy yanks!
Don't be going all Frank on me Tombstone
Regarding the unveiling, I'm not sure if it was Barca themselves but one BBC(?) journo did tweet that he'd been contacted by a Barcelona based TV station offering to sell HD TV coverage of the unveiling. The sales pitch did even acknowledge that the whole thing was based on a Spanish newspaper claiming the deal was agreed and he'd be unveiled today.
I know it seems straight forward - a club losing money spends £350m on 2 players and £50m per year on wages, they must therefore be ****ed regarding FFP. It's not as straight forward as that though.
For a start we don't know whether the £200m odd that was given to Neymar actually came from PSG. If as some people speculated, it was paid directly by Qatar to Neymar then PSG have nothing to worry about. The same story could apply to his wages too - PSG may only be paying him a nominal amount with the rest of his wage coming from a sponsorship deal from Qatar.
For arguments sake though lets assume that the fee for Neymar and the potential fee for Mbappe have been paid directly by PSG and will be reflected on their accounts. Assuming both player signed 5 year contracts, that £350m odd only costs PSG £70m per season on their accounts. With the additional wages that's £120m.
You then have to consider expenses from last season which won't apply this season - there will be transfer fees from 4 or 5 years ago that have been fully amortised or the annual amount has decreased where certain players have signed a new contract (in 2 years time if Neymar and Mbappe sign new 5 year contracts that £70m per season becomes £42m per season), you'll have wages of players that have left coming off the wage bill and their might be profits on transfer fees received.
Pure guestimation but once you factor in all the above, the net effect on their accounts may only be £70m per season worse off. Given that clubs are allowed to make small losses and FFP is calculated over 3 seasons, that's only a dodgy sponsorship or 2 needed for them to be compliant.
Regarding the unveiling, I'm not sure if it was Barca themselves but one BBC(?) journo did tweet that he'd been contacted by a Barcelona based TV station offering to sell HD TV coverage of the unveiling. The sales pitch did even acknowledge that the whole thing was based on a Spanish newspaper claiming the deal was agreed and he'd be unveiled today.
I know it seems straight forward - a club losing money spends £350m on 2 players and £50m per year on wages, they must therefore be ****ed regarding FFP. It's not as straight forward as that though.
For a start we don't know whether the £200m odd that was given to Neymar actually came from PSG. If as some people speculated, it was paid directly by Qatar to Neymar then PSG have nothing to worry about. The same story could apply to his wages too - PSG may only be paying him a nominal amount with the rest of his wage coming from a sponsorship deal from Qatar.
For arguments sake though lets assume that the fee for Neymar and the potential fee for Mbappe have been paid directly by PSG and will be reflected on their accounts. Assuming both player signed 5 year contracts, that £350m odd only costs PSG £70m per season on their accounts. With the additional wages that's £120m.
You then have to consider expenses from last season which won't apply this season - there will be transfer fees from 4 or 5 years ago that have been fully amortised or the annual amount has decreased where certain players have signed a new contract (in 2 years time if Neymar and Mbappe sign new 5 year contracts that £70m per season becomes £42m per season), you'll have wages of players that have left coming off the wage bill and their might be profits on transfer fees received.
Pure guestimation but once you factor in all the above, the net effect on their accounts may only be £70m per season worse off. Given that clubs are allowed to make small losses and FFP is calculated over 3 seasons, that's only a dodgy sponsorship or 2 needed for them to be compliant.
Continuing the positivity from the Coutinho news, a Southampton based journo has wrote an article on the VvD saga where he mentions that no bids have been made for VvD, Southampton won't be forced to lower their valuation, he's not for sale anyway but maybe, please, somebody offer £60m and we might change our minds:
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/15466134.No_bids_for_van_Dijk/?ref=rss
Reads very much to me like Southampton might be more willing to sell than we are.
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/15466134.No_bids_for_van_Dijk/?ref=rss
Reads very much to me like Southampton might be more willing to sell than we are.
He also said we'd keep working on signings until the 31st!