Supplements the debate/discussion thread

SMed said:
How much do you weigh and what's your training look like (rough lifts and routine)?
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I'm 6'2" and weigh between 82kg and 84kg

3 day split... 3x10 mostly failing on 3rd set

Monday
Flat Bench 71x10, 81x10, 96x4, 1RM 106KG
Incline Bench
Bench dips
Butterfly curls
Dumbbell skull crushes
Decline Bench
Press up's till fail

Wednesday
Deadlift 81x10, 106x10, 136x6, 1RM 156kg
Chin up's
Barbell bicep curl
Bent over row
Hammer curl
One arm row
Dumbbell preacher curl

Friday
Squat 10x66, 10x76, 6x86, 1RM 101kg
Lunges
Seated leg raisers
Barbell military press
Dumbell overhead press
Dumbell lat raisers
Shoulder shrugs

I think that's roughly it off the top of my head
 
270g of protein is pretty excessive. If you're getting 200g from protein powder alone, you must hardly be eating any food at all.
 
To be honest I don't really get hungry and because of that I don't snack between meal, typical Monday for me is...

Breakfast
Half serving of Serious Mass with semi milk

10:30am
1 Serving 100% whey

Lunch
240g Packet chicken with 3 chipati's

4:30pm before training
1 Serving 100% whey

7pm post training
2 serving 100% whey

Dinner
400g - 500g Chicken fajitas

11:30pm
Half serving of Serious Mass


But as of this week I've stopped the serious mass so 1600kcal less
 
I know and I love training but I'm just not a big eater, if I could squeeze food into me through a pipe I would lol

I thought the daily amount of protein should be your body weight in pounds times 1.5 - 2?

I know eating propper foods would be best be I really do struggle, money really isn't an issue either so don't mind buying supplements
 
Need to order some more whey and dextrose soon.

Any good offers on at the moment?

Plus what is the best tasting stuff you guys have tried? Mixing with oats makes a pretty horrible shake!
 
Zaf said:
I know and I love training but I'm just not a big eater, if I could squeeze food into me through a pipe I would lol

I thought the daily amount of protein should be your body weight in pounds times 1.5 - 2?

I know eating propper foods would be best be I really do struggle, money really isn't an issue either so don't mind buying supplements
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How do you struggle? Lack of time? Feeling full?

You could be feeling full due to the milk in the morning for example (probably not, but might be worth a try) - How much tea/coffee do you drink?

If you feel full, just eat, your stomach is used to eating next to nothing, so it's shrunk for lack of a better word. Getting some more food in it will do wonders, and over time you will be used to eating slightly more food. I was the same.

Begbie said:
Need to order some more whey and dextrose soon.

Any good offers on at the moment?

Plus what is the best tasting stuff you guys have tried? Mixing with oats makes a pretty horrible shake!
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Best tasting stuff? How do you mean? The whey and dextrose combo?
 
Zaf said:
To be honest I don't really get hungry and because of that I don't snack between meal, typical Monday for me is...

Breakfast
Half serving of Serious Mass with semi milk

10:30am
1 Serving 100% whey

Lunch
240g Packet chicken with 3 chipati's

4:30pm before training
1 Serving 100% whey

7pm post training
2 serving 100% whey

Dinner
400g - 500g Chicken fajitas

11:30pm
Half serving of Serious Mass


But as of this week I've stopped the serious mass so 1600kcal less
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That is such a poor diet, eggs, oats, peanut butter, blueberries, fish, no veg!!! these should be part of diets. I use to be really bad with reliance on shakes and supplements but you might have pipped me on this!

Example below

Breakfast
Half serving of Serious Mass with semi milk (blended with 50g blueberries, 40g oats)

10:30am
MEAL!!!! example (200g tuna with broccoli, 30g almonds)

Lunch
no packet ham/chicken!!!!! Turkey, carbs(e.g. sweet potato, rice) green beans

4:30pm before training
smoked haddock, rice cakes or something similar

7pm post training
2 serving 100% whey

Dinner
400g - 500g Chicken fajitas (use wholemeal wraps) not ideal but depends on goal/strict/dirty bulk etc

11:30pm
almonds, 2tsp peanut butter with caesin not serious mass unless contains slow release

Less reliance, i would even remove the morning shake! egg white scrammbled with rye bread, peanut butter, almonds, bannana loads of options really
 
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There's absolutely no need for 270g of protein, especially not at such a light weight. If you had over 100kg of Lean body weight then perhaps... but let's face it... you're miles of that ;)
 
Freefaller said:
There's absolutely no need for 270g of protein, especially not at such a light weight. If you had over 100kg of Lean body weight then perhaps... but let's face it... you're miles of that ;)
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i think worrying about eating too much protein is a weird little endemic cyst that this forum loves to tout. I have never had any negative sides from 1.5-2g per lb bm, im 225lbs but probs 190 lean thats still 280g on a bulk.

Far more people tread water imo because they dont have the excess protein intake. Remember biology is not black and white just cos one fella gains on 100g protein a day @ 6' 170lbs doesnt mean that everyone does.
 
Ultra_Extreme said:
i think worrying about eating too much protein is a weird little endemic cyst that this forum loves to tout. I have never had any negative sides from 1.5-2g per lb bm, im 225lbs but probs 190 lean thats still 280g on a bulk.

Far more people tread water imo because they dont have the excess protein intake. Remember biology is not black and white just cos one fella gains on 100g protein a day @ 6' 170lbs doesnt mean that everyone does.
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True. Although I think what most people are trying to say is that having the extra protein won't actually help, if anything it will just help towards fat gain (depending on the protein source obviously) and what your current macros are on everything else

I'm presuming there are various studies that looked in to how much protein your body can use in a day?
 
Ultra_Extreme said:
i think worrying about eating too much protein is a weird little endemic cyst that this forum loves to tout. I have never had any negative sides from 1.5-2g per lb bm, im 225lbs but probs 190 lean thats still 280g on a bulk.

Far more people tread water imo because they dont have the excess protein intake. Remember biology is not black and white just cos one fella gains on 100g protein a day @ 6' 170lbs doesnt mean that everyone does.
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I'm not worried about it as if it's going to cause harm, I just think it's wasted. I often recommend to err on the side of a slight protein excess for a number of reasons, but even for me 270 for this guy is just making expensive ****.

He doesn't have the muscle mass nor the work capacity to utilise that much protein.
 
It's just purely because it's an expensive way of getting calories especially at his weight and routine, and wasteful when all your body will do is turn it to fat (if you're in calorie surplus) or change it to energy which is inefficient. It's just wasteful, not bothered about health issues. For it to be bad for the kidneys we're talking serious amounts of protein every single day - however it's like anything done to excess, it's going to cause you issues.
 
Protein metabolism is based around workload and hormone levels plus lean mass. Simply put if you add protein, testosterone and damaged muscle into a bowl you get bigger better muscle out the end.

So when deciding your protein intake you have to first find a way to establish your capacity for protein synthesis, this is nigh on impossible without a team of doctors, but you can do an estimate based on your condition over the baseline that has been tested.

'They' say that the average human can metabolize up to 60g of protein in one sitting and at around 20g per hour. So if you make an estimation of how far above the median your physique is you can increase the metabolic performance. Now it would be mad to assume that if you have twice the muscle mass of a 'normal' person, then you have twice the testosterone, but i think it would be fair to assume that for every doubling you could assume a 50% increase in natural synthesis up to maybe 3 times the muscle mass for a naturally trained individual (thats around the limits of even an excellent average joe trainer).

When you add steroids into the mix you blow the lid off synthesis completely and the game changes. But for the purposes of the natural bodybuilder i firmly believe that if you take your height/weight/body type and calculate your deviation from the mean in terms of LBM you can roughly estimate your required protein. For an average 6' male in shape the baseline is 60g every 3-4hours.


@ff slightly contrary to your thinking i think its the least wasteful calorie excess, dependent on goals, i think protein is the one area where you can consume excess in order to be satiated and run a lower risk of unwanted fat gains while maximizing muscle growth and retention
 
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Cheers for the reply guys and I am actually taking all this in :)

Kai thank you for the sample diet one other major issue I have is I am allergic to Nuts! Is there another good food to snack on instead? Also can't stand fish but don't mind tinned tuna just find it easier to have a shake instead.

I do get some veg (peppers, onions, carrots) and do eat a bannan and apple a day too I forgot these off before.

Out of curosity though why is a tin of tuna better than a 2 Serving shake if cost isn't an issue?

Cheers
 
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