Supplements the debate/discussion thread

rotters said:
Hey guys just had a patella femoral joint replacement today and a pt buddy of mine suggested colostrum as a good sup to take whilst healing... Thoughts? Just wanted more than one persons opinion.
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Colostrum is more for respiratory health and can also help with digestive health. It's expensive but have used it when I've found it on offer, as it's useful for keeping fit and healthy when on a calorie deficit.

Would not really help you for what you want though. If you're going to try a higher end supplement I'd suggest trying a good quality herb called Cissus Quadrangularis, again it's expensive though.
 
Chong Warrior said:
Haha truth :)

Animal pak is one of the worst, would be a healthier choice to throw that snake oil in the bin, I wouldn't take it if it was free.
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Does it contain any bad stuff? I musta fell for the marketing spiel :)

its £18 for 44 servings. I understand multivits are cheap as chips anyway but for a branded item the price doesnt seem too extreme.

Surely they contain all the good stuff ? Its well reviewed on areas like this

http://reviews.bodybuilding.com/Universal_Nutrition/Animal_Pak/

and on amazon here http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Nutrition-Animal-Supplement-44-Count/product-reviews/B000GOT54C

If it was free why wouldnt you?

In the week or so Ive been using it Ive been sleeping better and feeling less lethargic. However this is from someone who never took multivitamins before so its probably not surprising.
 
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You're taking views from people you have no idea about, you don't know their knowledge of nutrition? Anyone with any knowledge in this area wouldn't be leaving positive reviews of it ;)

Most well known multi's are made up of the cheapest versions of each vitamin, example the list shows 30mg Zinc 200% RDA and 400mg Magensium 100% RDA. These are two of the more well known nutrients that are important to help someone training. Yet they're both of the oxide variety, which means your body won't absorb them... so truth is "Animal Pak" the ultimate multi doesn't contain any zinc or magnesium... not that your body will use anyway.

Waste of money.
 
FinglisHobbit, if you "feel" better by taking that supplement (better sleep, more energy, etc)...why not continue taking it?

If I gave you a white placebo pill, however, by taking this pill, you felt like superman in the gym and performed PBs while on my pill, I'd say the pill is working.

As long as it is not causing you harm and it is apparently helping you... I dont see anything wrong with it.

I would agree though, its a very expensive for a vitamin pill. I'd prefer to spend less and get a simple multivitamin at a local supermarket. I think they cost about 5p/pill/day.

Its your body...its your choice.
 
jernau_gergeh said:
. What on earth you were expecting expensive multivits to do is beyond me, but those are ridiculously overpriced. Chalk it down to experience and move on.
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Its not been any issue to me guys. Relax :).

I do like the convenience of them in little packets though. I'm not claiming it does anything special. I accept they are over priced . But I feel pretty decent on them. I never bought em thinking they were anything more than vitamins. I just didn't mind paying £17 for 44 little packs.
 
What kind of cycles do people use with DAA? I was originally looking at 3 weeks on, 1 off (just to fit into some kind of monthly pattern and be easy to remember). I'm now reading a few conflicting reports about the need to cycle and/or people having much longer cycles on it.

edit: Units of measurement might be helpful...
 
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FrenchTart said:
What kind of cycles do people use with DAA? I was originally looking at 3 weeks on, 1 off (just to fit into some kind of monthly pattern and be easy to remember). I'm now reading a few conflicting reports about the need to cycle and/or people having much longer cycles on it.

edit: Units of measurement might be helpful...
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5g twice a day: current studies run to something like 3 weeks at a maximum. Simply because that is how long the study lasted.

Cycling is recommended because there are some signs of increased liver enzymatic activity, meaning that taking a break from it might be helpful. The increased enzymatic qctivity is nothing to be worried about, however.

There are also ties in with keeping your own leutenising/sex hormone functionality without external assistance...
 
5g twice a day? :eek: Everything else I've read was more along the lines of 3g once per day. Is there much benefit to such a drastically higher dose?

I've heard about the effect on libido. I possibly noticed one but it's hard to know how much of anything is in your head rather than actually a real experience. I assume that's what you're alluding to in your last point anyhow :p
 
FrenchTart said:
5g twice a day? :eek: Everything else I've read was more along the lines of 3g once per day. Is there much benefit to such a drastically higher dose?

I've heard about the effect on libido. I possibly noticed one but it's hard to know how much of anything is in your head rather than actually a real experience. I assume that's what you're alluding to in your last point anyhow :p
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3g once a day is the dose for the clinical product, which does result in an increase in test.

I only suggest 5g twice a day, because I never noticed anything from it. If I remember correctly, Steedie was on 10g twice a day... :eek:

Personally, I don't think the clinical observations result in gains, so it is expensive and awful tasting for no real reason... :(
 
I actually don't mind the taste of it - especially compared to the god-awful horror that is the BCAAs I tried.

I did feel a little more energetic on my first cycle. I don't know how much of that is psychosomatic but I think I'm going to at least finish the stuff I have to see if it does provide any slight energy boost....which I'm guessing there is no evidence to suggest should happen but heyho...
 
You don't mind the taste of DAA? :eek: To be fair, OAKG is by far and away the most awful supplement I have tried...

Regarding energy levels associated with DAA intake, the clinical evidence suggests a 20-40% increase ins circulating test. And that's it - nothing on energy, gainz, or whatever. I've heard people feel better on it, but feel better simply by getting more sleep... which has better hormonal outcomes, anyway (or rather, a reduction in the negative ones). Regardless, DAA will not do you any harm if you plough through it even at elevated levels because it works within the body's existing physiological processes: it increases the availability of the rate limiter in leutenising hormone production, which increases test production: it does not supplant the existing system through the use of exogenous sources.

Same mechanism for beta alanine supplementation: the body generally doesn't get "enough" beta alanine through its normal diet to support supra-muscular concentrations of carnosine, so increasing one's intake of beta alaine allows the body to synthesise more = lean tissue and strength/power gains.

More test is never a bad thing, unless you like your hair on your head, but the levels achievable through "non-exogenous" are unlikely to actually improve gains...

HOWEVER (from Examine.com, and something I wanted to study during my Sports Science degree):

"Watching sexually arousing films (porn), or just being sexually aroused, can increase testosterone secretion in men[7][8] watching 4 minutes of erotica can also increase subsequent performance on a 3 rep squat."

How is that not awesome? :cool:

Regarding the why of this particular observation, however...

"The increase when sexually aroused is minor and transient, with 25.2+/-6.3nmol/l in the sexually aroused group and 22.2+/-5.6 nmol/l in control. The arousal does not need to be great, as testosterone increases are seen even after social interaction with attractive females.[10][11] After a 5 minute conversation with an attractive woman, male testosterone levels can increase up to 30% from baseline (relative to an increase of 13% for conversing with males).[11] This degree of testosterone increase is unlikely to exert any anabolic effect on muscle tissue, but can contribute to neurology."

In other words, hitting on hot gym bunnies should actually now be part of every guy;s workout: not from a harassment perspective (of course), but because it might help squeeze out those last few reps (probably not the best choice of words, but...).

The last bit is actually quite interesting: even 30% increase in baseline test is probably not going to do anything for gainz, but is probably pretty good as a pre-workout. This ties in with rumours about the British Olympic cycling team... :eek:

Either way, a whole new way to enjoy your workouts just opened up... :o
 
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