Taiwan and China thread.

AORUS said:
Taiwan is part of China it's been like that in the Ming dynasty
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It was Japanese for 50 year from 1895 onwards.

Ireland had been attached to the Kingdom of England and then later the United Kingdom for longer, is that really a good reason for invading a country? Should the UK invade the Republic of Ireland on that basis?

Bit of a strange concept I know but perhaps what the people want is relevant in these situations.
 
dowie said:
So what? What is your point?



That's just a fudge to pacify the PRC, they treat Taiwan mostly as being independent but have to keep a fudge in place primarily because of the PRC/CCP.



You sound like a typical tankie, can guess what your views on Ukraine will be too. If China invades Taiwan then China is starting the war not the US, the US has no desire to start a war with China and the hostilities in that region right now are being caused by China.
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1. My point is I can see why America wanted Chiang Kai-shek, Nationalists to win the civil war to stop the Communist Party and China internally and make her a more powerful ally in the camp of the United Nations! Washington would hold a Strategic plan in China between Russia and North Korea borders if they won but they loss.

Great Britain announced that she was giving $200,000,000 to China as her contribution & Roosevelt granted a loan of $500,000,000 as part to there contribution in 1946

The $700,000,000 loan is, in reality, a huge bribe to the bankers, financiers, landlords, etc., who surround Chiang Kai-shek in Chungking and who run his government. If the scandalous racketeering and grafting that goes on over the Burma Road is kept up with respect to these loans, then we can rest assured that an all-too-large proportion of the money will find its way into the pockets of the Chiang Kai-shek, Nationalists and damn little will go toward helping the people of China. Chiang’s decision to go to war against the Communists in 1946 came at the cost of postponing the economic reconstruction of China. This meant diverting tax revenues, investment, and other resources to the war effort rather than to the needs of the people. Heavy taxes, a huge government debt, inflation, unemployment, and food shortages caused many, especially in the cities, to lose faith in the Nationalist government. The Nationalists responded with censorship, beatings, mass arrests, and even assassinations. This repression drove many to the Communist cause that why Chinese Communist Party of Mao forced won the war.

In 1949 the Chinese Civil War essentially ended when the Chinese Communist Party of Mao forced the Republic of China led by America’s World War II ally Chiang Kai-shek and his Nationalist Party to flee to the offshore Chinese province of Taiwan, where Chiang established what was essentially a military dictatorship. Since that time, Taiwan has evolved into a thriving democracy while Beijing has considered Taiwan to be a wayward province that must eventually be reunited with the “motherland.” United Nations, Washington led a successful attempt to keep Mao’s People's Republic of China (PRC) out, and for the next 22 years, the Republic of China in Taiwan remained the official representative of all of China. This changed on October 25, 1971, the UN voted to “recognize the PRC as the only legitimate representative of China to the United Nations” and removed “ the representative of Chiang Kai-shek” from the UN.

The Carter Administration also announced America’s “one China Policy.” A careful reading of this policy indicates Washington agrees there is one China, and its government is the PRC.

Yes my views on Ukraine is much different to your point of view I know President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is Washington puppet that's why Washington have granted huge loans in Ukraine

Because my view is not your point of view you call me a typical tankie! - meaning self-proclaimed communist who indulges in conspiracy theories, far from it


 
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AORUS said:
1. My point is I can see why America wanted Chiang Kai-shek, Nationalists to win the civil war to stop the Communist Party and China internally and make her a more powerful ally in the camp of the United Nations! Washington would hold a Strategic plan in China between Russia and North Korea borders if they won but they loss.

Great Britain announced that she was giving $200,000,000 to China as her contribution & Roosevelt granted a loan of $500,000,000 as part to there contribution in 1946

The $700,000,000 loan is, in reality, a huge bribe to the bankers, financiers, landlords, etc., who surround Chiang Kai-shek in Chungking and who run his government. If the scandalous racketeering and grafting that goes on over the Burma Road is kept up with respect to these loans, then we can rest assured that an all-too-large proportion of the money will find its way into the pockets of the Chiang Kai-shek, Nationalists and damn little will go toward helping the people of China.

Chiang’s decision to go to war against the Communists in 1946 came at the cost of postponing the economic reconstruction of China. This meant diverting tax revenues, investment, and other resources to the war effort rather than to the needs of the people. Heavy taxes, a huge government debt, inflation, unemployment, and food shortages caused many, especially in the cities, to lose faith in the Nationalist government. The Nationalists responded with censorship, beatings, mass arrests, and even assassinations. This repression drove many to the Communist cause that why Chinese Communist Party of Mao forced won the war.

In 1949 the Chinese Civil War essentially ended when the Chinese Communist Party of Mao forced the Republic of China led by America’s World War II ally Chiang Kai-shek and his Nationalist Party to flee to the offshore Chinese province of Taiwan, where Chiang established what was essentially a military dictatorship. Since that time, Taiwan has evolved into a thriving democracy while Beijing has considered Taiwan to be a wayward province that must eventually be reunited with the “motherland.” United Nations, Washington led a successful attempt to keep Mao’s People's Republic of China (PRC) out, and for the next 22 years, the Republic of China in Taiwan remained the official representative of all of China. This changed on October 25, 1971, the UN voted to “recognize the PRC as the only legitimate representative of China to the United Nations” and removed “ the representative of Chiang Kai-shek” from the UN.

The Carter Administration also announced America’s “one China Policy.” A careful reading of this policy indicates Washington agrees there is one China, and its government is the PRC.

Yes my views Ukraine much different to your point of view I know President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is Washington puppet
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Do you get paid by the post or the word?
 
AORUS said:
1. My point is I can see why America wanted Chiang Kai-shek, Nationalists to win the civil war to stop the Communist Party and China internally and make her a more powerful ally in the camp of the United Nations! Washington would hold a Strategic plan in China between Russia and North Korea borders if they won but they loss.[...]
Click to expand...

Again, so what?

AORUS said:
The Carter Administration also announced America’s “one China Policy.” A careful reading of this policy indicates Washington agrees there is one China, and its government is the PRC.
Click to expand...

And again that's just a fudge the US maintains because of the PRC/CCP hostility to Taiwan.

AORUS said:
Yes my views on Ukraine is much different to your point of view I know President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is Washington puppet that's why Washington have granted huge loans in Ukraine

Because my view is not your point of view you call me a typical tankie! - meaning self-proclaimed communist who indulges in conspiracy theories, far from it
Click to expand...

Well, so far your views seem to overlap with those of the standard tankie...
 
AORUS said:
1. My point is I can see why America wanted Chiang Kai-shek, Nationalists to win the civil war to stop the Communist Party and China internally and make her a more powerful ally in the camp of the United Nations! Washington would hold a Strategic plan in China between Russia and North Korea borders if they won but they loss.

Great Britain announced that she was giving $200,000,000 to China as her contribution & Roosevelt granted a loan of $500,000,000 as part to there contribution in 1946

The $700,000,000 loan is, in reality, a huge bribe to the bankers, financiers, landlords, etc., who surround Chiang Kai-shek in Chungking and who run his government. If the scandalous racketeering and grafting that goes on over the Burma Road is kept up with respect to these loans, then we can rest assured that an all-too-large proportion of the money will find its way into the pockets of the Chiang Kai-shek, Nationalists and damn little will go toward helping the people of China. Chiang’s decision to go to war against the Communists in 1946 came at the cost of postponing the economic reconstruction of China. This meant diverting tax revenues, investment, and other resources to the war effort rather than to the needs of the people. Heavy taxes, a huge government debt, inflation, unemployment, and food shortages caused many, especially in the cities, to lose faith in the Nationalist government. The Nationalists responded with censorship, beatings, mass arrests, and even assassinations. This repression drove many to the Communist cause that why Chinese Communist Party of Mao forced won the war.

In 1949 the Chinese Civil War essentially ended when the Chinese Communist Party of Mao forced the Republic of China led by America’s World War II ally Chiang Kai-shek and his Nationalist Party to flee to the offshore Chinese province of Taiwan, where Chiang established what was essentially a military dictatorship. Since that time, Taiwan has evolved into a thriving democracy while Beijing has considered Taiwan to be a wayward province that must eventually be reunited with the “motherland.” United Nations, Washington led a successful attempt to keep Mao’s People's Republic of China (PRC) out, and for the next 22 years, the Republic of China in Taiwan remained the official representative of all of China. This changed on October 25, 1971, the UN voted to “recognize the PRC as the only legitimate representative of China to the United Nations” and removed “ the representative of Chiang Kai-shek” from the UN.

The Carter Administration also announced America’s “one China Policy.” A careful reading of this policy indicates Washington agrees there is one China, and its government is the PRC.

Yes my views on Ukraine is much different to your point of view I know President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is Washington puppet that's why Washington have granted huge loans in Ukraine

Because my view is not your point of view you call me a typical tankie! - meaning self-proclaimed communist who indulges in conspiracy theories, far from it
Click to expand...

Say what again tankie?
 
dowie said:
Again, so what?

And again that's just a fudge the US maintains because of the PRC/CCP hostility to Taiwan.

Well, so far your views seem to overlap with those of the standard tankie...
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Again that's your point of view but not mine you can't change my point of view of Evil Washington
 
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AORUS said:
Again that's your point of view but not mine you can't change my point of view of Evil Washington
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OK so Washington is apparently evil but you seem to be completely ignoring some people, perhaps the people who matter the most here, those people actually living in Taiwan. Why do you ignore their wishes? (I guess the same could be asked re: Ukraine too as you have the same blindspot there too.)

dowie said:
It was Japanese for 50 year from 1895 onwards.

Ireland had been attached to the Kingdom of England and then later the United Kingdom for longer, is that really a good reason for invading a country? Should the UK invade the Republic of Ireland on that basis?

Bit of a strange concept I know but perhaps what the people want is relevant in these situations.
Click to expand...
 
dowie said:
OK so Washington is apparently evil but you seem to be completely ignoring some people, perhaps the people who matter the most here, those people actually living in Taiwan. Why do you ignore their wishes? (I guess the same could be asked re: Ukraine too as you have the same blindspot there too.)
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Have you lived in Asia and know what the people views on America is I lived in China 8 years but I didn't speak to 1.5billon people the ones I speak to there views are completely different. The point is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion in this world and what we believe in. You talk about Ukraine the number of refugees is 2.9 million from total Population 43.79 million so what about millions of other Ukraine people still lives in war zone!, Syria - 6.8 million refugees was the largest in the world the problem was America's War on Terror and the subsequent democracy experiments in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria having turned into geopolitical disasters, At least, the Chinese's are not invading other countries or arming Jihadists to wage war with the Legitimate Government of their own country. We wouldn't have refugees or dead children bombed by drones the America’s wars in the Middle East are petroleum-wars; business wars; wars for profit and power over Russia. The money…the profit…is in the arms, munitions, equipment and private contractor services. The USA invades Iraq under the pretext that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction! 460,000 deaths in Iraq as direct or indirect result of the war 183,535 – 206,107 civilian deaths include children. Over 60 countries took to the streets on February 15, 2003, in opposition to the imminent invasion of Iraq again our opinion and voices was over turned.

Go to Taiwan\China and view there opinions and views instead of reading facebook\twitter

Ignoring others is the best way of stopping argument:)IMO

Bye

​

​

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AORUS said:
Go to Taiwan\China and view there opinions and views instead of reading facebook\twitter
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What do the opinions of people in China have to do with it?

You still don't seem to grasp the point that it's surely a matter for the people of Taiwan.
 
According to government figures, over 95% of Taiwan's population of 23.4 million consists of Han Chinese, while 2.3% are Taiwanese indigenous peoples so yes you should respect other countries and their cultures than your own instead of using Taiwan people for your own game to justify a unsanctioned Washington war over Taiwan like I said learn the history before you judge other nations. I like world peace hate war I know that there are a lot of people who just can’t change their respective views for the United States, but their political position in the world just can’t be ignored anymore.

Just move on this isn't helping this debate\thread you can't change nor can I:)
 
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So? Over 70% of Singapore is Chinese, does that mean China is allowed to take it over?

Maybe you'd like them to take over Vancouver or Seattle as well, decent populations of Chinese immigrants there... Perhaps then you would not mind if the US takes over any country that has even a single American in it?

Using the presence of natives in someone else's borders was the exact premise on which Germany annihilated Czechoslovakia and Poland, it is not a path to peace whatsoever.
 
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That's exactly what China will be thinking. It's worked for the Russians. If China ever gets powerful enough that the US doesnt want to get involved, I would be extremely worried if I was in a country with a large population of Han Chinese - and yes there are a number of countries like this in south east Asia
 
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AORUS said:
According to government figures, over 95% of Taiwan's population of 23.4 million consists of Han Chinese, while 2.3% are Taiwanese indigenous peoples so yes you should respect other countries and their cultures than your own instead of using Taiwan people for your own game to justify a unsanctioned Washington war over Taiwan like I said learn the history before you judge other nations. I like world peace hate war I know that there are a lot of people who just can’t change their respective views for the United States, but their political position in the world just can’t be ignored anymore.
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This is just waffle, you haven't addressed the point at all - so what if 95% of Taiwan's population is Han Chinese?

You've made some vague reference to history (again) but it's still unclear what you're actually trying to argue.

This all just diverts from the key point you keep on missing which is what Taiwan actually wants!
 
It's an hilarious argument to say China can do what it wants because Taiwan's people are ethnic Han. It completely ignores that two people who look the same can have a different culture, ideals and view of the world.
 
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