*** The 2011 Gym Rats Thread ***

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You guys are like yeah but surely its 1.5g per lean weight, well if thats what you've read then am very happy for you lol, but dorian yates trains regular guys and even he says 1.5g per pound of body weight, he doesnt mention lean bodyweight, and I've read and heard this many times before. But like I said before, if you eat 150g and your gaining muscle thats great, but not everybody is the same and what works for you wont always work for others. I dont believe you can set a standard amount of protein for everybody, people have to experiment with food and work out whats best for them.

He is taking Anabolic/androgenic steroids. Do not follow the same tips as him.

That or listen to all the muscle mags nonsense and continue to waste your money on an incredibly high protein diet. Not being opinionated really, just trying to save you money.
 
Dorian Yates was a 6 time Mr Olympia and doing the naughty juice and also had freak genetics. Your bodies protein synthesis is not even close to the levels of his. You will not be making use of all that 400g of protein

I'm not trying to tell you what to do, just help you. You can't be willing to listen to advice about carbs and not protein if you yourself claim you're still learning about nutrition. We are trying to help you save money and be more efficient with your food.

I don't even think Flex/Muscle and Fitness etc would tell you to eat 400g
 
But can someone explain to me again the science behind carbs with protein, how it helps the amino acids get to where they need to go? Coz I've got it in my head that if I dont have carbs with protein then the protein isn't gona work as good?

I'm 260 pounds round abouts, I go up and down all the time, these days I have around 400g of protein per day and 200g carbs I used to have 600g carbs per day but now I've lowered it to 200g which just comes from oats/sweet potatoes/wholewheet pasta/dextrose.

My diet is 100% clean, I only eat good carbs, and my protein comes from egg whites/fish/whey, I eat green veg with most meals such as broccoli and spinach and I try to eat plenty of fat too such as olive oil/sunflower oil/oily fish/omega 3 tablets but even though I know exactly how much carbs and protein I have each day, I find it hard to measure how much fat I eat, not quite sure how to do it.

Oh and dont get me wrong, I know carbs are great for energy for gym, I usually try eat carbs from waking up to going to gym, and then have dextrose with post-workout meal and then after that no more carbs for rest of day, is this the best way to do it? no carbs in the evening and before bed?

Carbs don't help protein get to where it needs to go. Carbs cause a spike in the bodies insulin level (low GI = long steady increase in insulin, high GI = big short spike) which is the 'postman' for protein.

Having said that, protein and fat also cause insulin spikes themselves, just not on such a grand scale as carbs do. So don't worry too much about carbs at every meal.. but if it's a mental thing.. have 20g of carbs with your meals (instead of say, 100g for your morning meals and 0g for your evening meals). So you can spread it out.. for piece of mind.

In regard to fat, i'm very much the same and don't bother counting them. As long as they are good fats, i'm not too bothered. Fats don't make anyone fat, and im comfortable that my 10/11% bodyfat shows that counting them isn't needed unless you're getting in some serious transfats with your meals.

Regarding carbs before bed, i usually taper them off for the evenings because they aren't too good to have before bed. 1. the energy isn't used throughout the night, and unless you train at night and are glycogen depleted, there's no reason for the carbs to be used for energy and will most likely jump into fat stores. and 2. carbs actually limit the amount of Growth Hormone (GH) released during your sleep.

Having said all that, there is new research coming out suggesting early morning carbs aren't great either. Spiking your insulin at a time when your cortisol is highest is usually physique-damaging. But take that with a pinch of salt as in the bigger picture, your test levels and other hormones are all at their highest in the morning too!



edit: as for 1.5g per lb of bodyweight.. i dont think it matters whether you're 1g per lb or 1.5lb per lb tbh. However, a 200lb man isn't going far wrong if he's eating 300g of protein per day, which will be 1200kcals of protein. if he's matching that with carbs, that's 2400kcals. and with the traditional 40/40/20 split of calories, he will be eating about 140g fat which means another 1200kcals roughly. Totally 3600kcals.

This man will no doubt train, and if he has an even slightly more demanding job than a desk job, he will need to take his BMR (estimated at 200lbs and average height of 5'10) of roughly 2100kcals and knock it up x1.4-1.6 which is gonna be hitting 3300 kcals.. just under what we've calculated earlier.

edit2: just saw you weigh well over 200lbs. I think you're hitting the correct target if you're getting in 350g protein a day.
 
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You're being opinionated really, like most people I come across in the gym...your ignoring the fact that I've already experimented with food and already worked out what works for me and what doesnt...that is fact not opinion. But your trying to say despite me experimenting and working this out for myself and despite the fact that I've had the best sucess out of the past 3 years and 5 months in the past 7 months since learning about nutrition and eating this way that I'm eating too much protein. When I was on 150g to 200g a day I noticed no growth, now with 400g a day I've noticed great results, bodyfat is lower, muscles are bigger and denser. Everything seems to be working for me now.

In my gym theres one guy that I listen to on nutrition advice, hes been at it over 20 years and hes got a degree in nutrition etc and he teaches science, half the stuff he tells me blags my head, but he gave me some good advice once, he said ask questions, but dont listen to anybody but yourself, and thats the way I am. So today I come on this forum and ask some questions about carbs, yet people are commenting on how much protein I consume lol and I really dont care, its a closed door. Obviously the fact that I am writing this and responding to some of the comments shows that I am being defensive, but its probably just the argumentative side of me since I'm used to this kinda stuff in the bodybuilding world, everybody things they know best, and everybody thinks they know more. You can't listen to everybody, not everybody can be correct? So eventually you have to stop listening and just learn as you go along, ask a few questions along the way maybe you've listen to the answers, maybe you wont, depends if they work out for you after experimentation.

Also I've never bought a magazine and wouldnt ever listen to that rubbish.

Also for the person that said DY is on steds, true he did and doubt he doesnt now since he'd old but thats irrelevant because he trains regular people now in his gym, as you can see by watching his blood & guts videos on youtube and I was listening to his advice for regular jo's not for bodybuilders when it comes to protein and other aspects of nutrition.

EDIT: if you go pay for a 6 week training course with DY he will tells you to eat 1.5g per pound of bodyweight. But he also says this could be too much or too little and you might need to lower or up it depending on the person.
 
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Carbs don't help protein get to where it needs to go. Carbs cause a spike in the bodies insulin level (low GI = long steady increase in insulin, high GI = big short spike) which is the 'postman' for protein.

Having said that, protein and fat also cause insulin spikes themselves, just not on such a grand scale as carbs do. So don't worry too much about carbs at every meal.. but if it's a mental thing.. have 20g of carbs with your meals (instead of say, 100g for your morning meals and 0g for your evening meals). So you can spread it out.. for piece of mind.

In regard to fat, i'm very much the same and don't bother counting them. As long as they are good fats, i'm not too bothered. Fats don't make anyone fat, and im comfortable that my 10/11% bodyfat shows that counting them isn't needed unless you're getting in some serious transfats with your meals.

Regarding carbs before bed, i usually taper them off for the evenings because they aren't too good to have before bed. 1. the energy isn't used throughout the night, and unless you train at night and are glycogen depleted, there's no reason for the carbs to be used for energy and will most likely jump into fat stores. and 2. carbs actually limit the amount of Growth Hormone (GH) released during your sleep.

Having said all that, there is new research coming out suggesting early morning carbs aren't great either. Spiking your insulin at a time when your cortisol is highest is usually physique-damaging. But take that with a pinch of salt as in the bigger picture, your test levels and other hormones are all at their highest in the morning too!

Cheers "ergonomics", thats made carbs allot clearer to me now, thats exactly what I was looking for.
 
Sorry you're totally contradicting yourself, you tell yourself not to listen to anyone but learn for yourself. But yet you're asking for advice on carbs. Is that rule just selective then?

I'm not saying 200g should work for you, but I'm sure there is a figure in between that would work better. If you're convinced you're using 400g of protein, then continue it, but I can tell you if you're natural, that you're really not and you're just flushing it down the toilet literally.

no one claims to know best, and if they do they're wrong. Freefaller amazes me with his knowledge, but even he would admit many more people know far more than he does, but it almost seems you are claiming to be already so knowledgeable by refusing to listen to anyone else. We all can learn something from each other, stop being so narrow minded about it.
 
Yeah because I've already learnt about protein, I've already experiemeted with it, and I've already come to conclusion, I have no questions, I am 100% positive, confident with my decision lol. So it's a closed door? whats hard to understand lol

I explained all this above in full detail as you can see since I write allot! haha

I had questions about carbs, I was willing to listen about carbs, what that guy wrote about carbs was clear and answered my questions.

Now I have no questions about carbs or protein lol.

EDIT: It makes me laugh, I didn't even know what carbs were until about a year ago, I didnt even know they existed, and then I learn about good carbs, bad carbs, complex carbs lol. I used to be a regular jo and ate processed food all my life and crap like everyone else in todays society, well, most people anyways, but now everyone thinks am a freak coz I eat sweet potatoes, oats, and fish all day long, as well as a few other things as well, but you get the idea, my parents think I have a boring diet but I quite like eating this way, I like the bodybuilding lifestyle. Blood, sweat and tears, minus the tears lol.

Although yesterday I think I got an EIH for first time ever, head has been banging since 8:30 last night to now, and burst blood vessels in chest, shoulders, back, neck just around a foot in height stretching round my body. First time this has ever happened, I knew what it was coz it looks same as when I did it to my biceps about 2.5 years ago when I was a newbie and was deadlift completly wrong. Hopefully it'll be gone in a few days tho. It happened when I was leg pressing, and when I got home I looked it up online and found other people saying the exact same thing on other bodybuilding forums. I've already been able to diagnose what happened by reading online, and also found the source of the problem, they say it was down to me breething wrong which I'd agree with but it was first time on leg press after 2 months coz my gym took it away but then they brought it back coz everyone complained, and then I was so happy yesterday I tried to do my max weight and did manage to get out 4 brilliant sets but just ****ed myself up in the process a little bit afterwards. I had to lay down, couldnt walk or anything lol.

All in the name of the game tho yeah haha
 
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:p

So you've tried lower protein diets for a long term period then? Personally I feel if you're 260lbs and training 6 times a week + doing lots of cardio and still overweight you're doing it wrong. Just sayin'.

I agree with you overall about finding what your body responds to and trying new things, I just think that diet is far outwith the realms of true use. Although protein from chicken etc does taste good :).
 
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Ok but I don't think you should ever close the door on a subject unless you are the recognised leading expert in protein synthesis and the like. Like I said, I'm not trying to dictate, only help, you may well know far more than me but to say it's a closed door is naive

But I'll stop now, good luck with your training :)
 
Thats your opinion, but I'm a true believer in 1.5g per pound of bodyweight, anyways opinions are irrelevant, whatever works for you, keep doing it.

400grams of protein will stress your kidneys horrifically not to mention your bowels too. There have been studies showing that excessive grams of protein/per lb of bodyweight is pointless and effectively just expensive glycogen. I'm sure you'd much rather learn from yourself as you state.

You guys are very opinionated lol, especially on this forum, but its true in all aspects of bodybuilding! even in gym, even when I want and need no advice people still try to give it lol. Sometimes people say why dont you do this exercise or that exercise, or why dont you do it this way or that way. Or eat this or that, lol, the best thing I've learnt over years is to listen to nobody and just learn yourself, but I did ask some questions about carbs above coz I'm still learning about nutrition and the science behind food so on some subjects am totally closed, like that door is closed and I refuse to open it, but on other subjects am more open and willing to listen lol.

Having just read this I won't bother giving you any advice other than to do what Steedie says and taper your carbs off during the day. Eat most early in the day and then some PWO.

I'm still a bit puzzled why you come and ask for advice and then when people try to help you refuse to listen? Okay it might not have been about the particular point you were interested in but it is relevant. People will be opinionated on a discussion forum as that's all it is peoples experiences and opinions.

Nobody is being malicious or 'attacking' your choices but merely being inquisitive and trying to help. Personally I've run out of patience with you. I still want you to post here and contribute as how everybody helps each other is brilliant :) but I just can't offer advice to somebody who is being narrow minded especially about something that *could* potentially be harming your progress and/or health.
 
So you've tried lower protein diets for a long term period then? Personally I feel if you're 260lbs and training 6 times a week + doing lots of cardio and still overweight you're doing it wrong. Just sayin'.

Unless i've missed something, SkScotch hasn't said whether he's "overweight" (in the fat sense).. and could well be another dorian yates in the making :p

Can you confirm SkScotch? Are you looking to bulk or cut?
 
Hi guys, sorry to but in on a convo, but whenever I lift my arms I get a clicking in both of my shoulders. Not really painful just annoying and It's really putting me off lifting. Any ideas?

Sponge
 
Unless i've missed something, SkScotch hasn't said whether he's "overweight" (in the fat sense).. and could well be another dorian yates in the making :p

Can you confirm SkScotch? Are you looking to bulk or cut?

I just assumed really, if you're 220+lbs lean and 6'6 then I could be very silly and you may respond well to 400g protein a day :p
 
Well packed on another 5lbs. Sitting at 15 stone 10. Almost back to where I was lol. Went to gym first time after 3 months. Still staying pretty damn lean surprisingly, got deck of abs, got a bit of water retention, pesty but no biggy atm. Another week or 2 and should be bigger then I ever was ;).
 
Hi guys, sorry to but in on a convo, but whenever I lift my arms I get a clicking in both of my shoulders. Not really painful just annoying and It's really putting me off lifting. Any ideas?

Sponge

Poor scapular control? How is your posture? Weak chest/lats and tight traps will leave your shoulder rolled forward (kyphotic extension) and possibly elevated (slightly shrugged shoulders).
 
No I'm not lean or cut at all, far from it, I posted pictures of me before in the pictures thread...I'm big but not lean, I'm leaner then I was a year ago and strive to be leaner all the time, I'm trying to get my bodyfat to 10% I reckon I'm probably at 20% now, I could be less now coz those pictures are old and my bodyfat is decreasing all the time, I can tell by the fact that more and more veins are becoming visible and popping out of my arms and neck lol.

EDIT: I got a picture on this page: http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17895672&highlight=skscotchegg&page=132 I used to have more on there I just eddited the post and took most of them off apart from the front shot, am gona take some more today.
 
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Hi guys, sorry to but in on a convo, but whenever I lift my arms I get a clicking in both of my shoulders. Not really painful just annoying and It's really putting me off lifting. Any ideas?

Sponge

I had this for years, quite badly would sound like a 'crunching' and could be felt by others if I put their hand on my shoulder. Especially during my first year or so of training. From what I understand it's tendons crossing over in grooves or something to that effect.

It's almost gone now. I'd suggest some regular stretching and some well balanced training.
 
I had this for years, quite badly would sound like a 'crunching' and could be felt by others if I put their hand on my shoulder. Especially during my first year or so of training. From what I understand it's tendons crossing over in grooves or something to that effect.

It's almost gone now. I'd suggest some regular stretching and some well balanced training.

Ok thanks mate, I take it this will go over time like yours. Do I just keep lifting the same?
 
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