*** The 2012 Gym Rats Thread ***

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Associate
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You're not 44 so it's not really the same. Also doing a 50+hr a week job, plus cooking/housework/chores/etc... tends to mean you don't have time for decent rest - so 6x a week training ISN'T a good idea for most people. If you don't have to work, then yeah sure, 6x a week is fine. I don't buy the "over training" thing as for most people that isn't the case. However, you CAN overtrain, but it does require some work, but you can genuinely render yourself useless by over training. You grow and get stronger when you rest, fact. Also, generally during a deload week, people come back on the other side far stronger as a result of the reduced training and increased mobility work.

Maybe so but im wrecked big time health wise, low test etc. And work 7 days a week... Maybe not 50+ hours but around 40-45.

Deloaded in the past done lots of differing routines but these days I keep it plain and simple which brings the best results... Low volume but heavy at all times and progression at all times possible. Not to say that this will work for everyone fair point but im just elaborating.
 
Caporegime
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Normally I don't like 'diets' but I plan on going on holiday shortly.

Done some reading up on the Keto diet, its basically avoid carbs for 5 days, high protein/fat then carb up for 2 days?

Does that sound right? I assume cutting down on carbs is going to work regardless to shift a couple of kgs quickly.
 
Caporegime
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Keto diet is just about reducing carbs all together. Keto == Ketosis == what your body does when it is starved of carbs.

In short, carbs are energy, you'll not be getting any, your body will "burn" fat to create energy.

What usually happens is you'll "drop water" like a dog, struggle to "move your bowels" and have death breath. You'll drop water/fat really quickly, but it is *very* easy to regain if you do not adjust your diet thereafter.

Be warned: You'll be told you are slowly killing yourself, or that you are poisoning your liver, or that it's not the "real way" to do it.

I lost nearly 5 stone on it in 6 months. Best thing I ever did.
 
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Keto diet is just about reducing carbs all together. Keto == Ketosis == what your body does when it is starved of carbs.

In short, carbs are energy, you'll not be getting any, your body will "burn" fat to create energy.

What usually happens is you'll "drop water" like a dog, struggle to "move your bowels" and have death breath. You'll drop water/fat really quickly, but it is *very* easy to regain if you do not adjust your diet thereafter.

Be warned: You'll be told you are slowly killing yourself, or that you are poisoning your liver, or that it's not the "real way" to do it.

I lost nearly 5 stone on it in 6 months. Best thing I ever did.

No, you'll still be getting calories from the diet, primarily from fat and the excess protein will be converted to glucose anyway. You'll only burn your own fat stores if you're in a calorie deficit. It's just somewhat 'easy' to be in a deficit when going keto because there are just so many normal foods that you now can't eat.
 
Man of Honour
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5 sessions too much? I would space them out so there's a break in the middle but getting to the gym at weekends has always been difficult. Is 44 getting to old for the heavier weights? Should I be reducing?

There's a few guys at my gym who are around your age and a couple who are probably 5+ years older and they are still lifting pretty heavy weights so it's not necessarily the end of the line so to speak. However it might make sense to reduce the number of sessions slightly so that you're giving yourself a chance to recover - it's important at any age but as you've found out it does start taking longer to recover as you get older.

If you're still enjoying it then there's no reason to stop and last time I saw you it seemed liked you were managing to keep yourself pretty fit - reducing the sessions a little does have the impact of meaning you get to spend more time with the family too maybe. :p
 
Man of Honour
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No, you'll still be getting calories from the diet, primarily from fat and the excess protein will be converted to glucose anyway. You'll only burn your own fat stores if you're in a calorie deficit. It's just somewhat 'easy' to be in a deficit when going keto because there are just so many normal foods that you now can't eat.

Almost. :)

When your body runs out of carbs, fat gets broken down into acetyl-CoA to get energy. aCoA is not being recycled by the Krebs cycle because the intermediates in the cycle have been depleted to be used for the gluconeogenesis process. As such an accumulation of aCoA triggers ketogenesis.

When your body has lots of carbs to use as energy, glucose becomes oxidized and aCoA is formed as an intermediate, and then enters the Krebs cycle first which then goes to a conversion of ATP (energy).

If your body has excess carbs, some of the glucose is completely metabolised, however, some of it is also stored by using aCoA to create fatty acids (which insulin then shuffles away and stores as what we call - "fat").

If your diet is changed from one which has lots or excess carbs to a ketogenic diet, i.e. meaning your body isn't provided with sufficient carbs to replen glycogen stores, it's the stages that your body goes through to enter ketosis that you must remember. The first stage is that the levels of glucose in your blood are maintained, as you correctly stated, through gluconeogenesis (sp? I always spell it wrong! :D).

However, our brains do not "burn" ketones in the initial stages, instead, it uses them for fat (lipid) synthesis within it. When you get to about 40-48hrs or so in that state, your brain start to "burn" ketones to use up your fat stores, also it reserves glucose specifically for it's use (so your other muscles have to rely on the fat stores). This avoids your body depleting it's protein stores in the muscles.

Also remember that when your body is in Keto it becomes very acidic (i.e. your pH levels drop) - your body should NOT be in this state for prolonged periods of time. You should strive to be as Alakline as possible! Furthermore, cancers thrive on acidic environments - something else to think about. :)
 
Caporegime
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Good session for me tonight and the last time I'll be doing 5x5 for a while. 3x5 for the next two weeks then a deload followed by some PB attempts. After that I'm giving 5/3/1 a go :cool:

Bench
100 x 5
110 x 5
120 x 5
130 x 5
140 x 5

Speed Box Squats

127.5 x 8 x 2

Dumbbell Inclines
50's x 3 x 8

CGBP
85 x 8
95 x 8
105 x 8

Pendlay Rows
72.5 x 8
82.5 x 8
92.5 x 8
 
Associate
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Hi all, I'm after some advice

So far I've kept up a good healthy year with regards to food and exercise.
I am trying to loose body fat which I have done quite well but at the same time bulk up a little.
Is this possible as my diet is quite low calorie? I tend to try and eat higher protein foods and not so much carbs.

I'm 5'8" and weigh 73kg

I started the year at 74kg so only lost 1kg but have noticed a good difference in fat loss.

I try and do an equal amount of both cardio and weights as I want the cardio to help burn fat and the weights to keep up the muscle strength.

So am I doing things the right way or do I need to loose the fat before concentrating on muscle strength?

Hope my question has come across clear enough.

Cheers
 
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Almost. :)

When your body runs out of carbs, fat gets broken down into acetyl-CoA to get energy. aCoA is not being recycled by the Krebs cycle because the intermediates in the cycle have been depleted to be used for the gluconeogenesis process. As such an accumulation of aCoA triggers ketogenesis.

When your body has lots of carbs to use as energy, glucose becomes oxidized and aCoA is formed as an intermediate, and then enters the Krebs cycle first which then goes to a conversion of ATP (energy).

If your body has excess carbs, some of the glucose is completely metabolised, however, some of it is also stored by using aCoA to create fatty acids (which insulin then shuffles away and stores as what we call - "fat").

If your diet is changed from one which has lots or excess carbs to a ketogenic diet, i.e. meaning your body isn't provided with sufficient carbs to replen glycogen stores, it's the stages that your body goes through to enter ketosis that you must remember. The first stage is that the levels of glucose in your blood are maintained, as you correctly stated, through gluconeogenesis (sp? I always spell it wrong! :D).

However, our brains do not "burn" ketones in the initial stages, instead, it uses them for fat (lipid) synthesis within it. When you get to about 40-48hrs or so in that state, your brain start to "burn" ketones to use up your fat stores, also it reserves glucose specifically for it's use (so your other muscles have to rely on the fat stores). This avoids your body depleting it's protein stores in the muscles.

Also remember that when your body is in Keto it becomes very acidic (i.e. your pH levels drop) - your body should NOT be in this state for prolonged periods of time. You should strive to be as Alakline as possible! Furthermore, cancers thrive on acidic environments - something else to think about. :)

It's been a number of years since I've been forced to recall the Krebs Cycle. How very dare you. :mad: :D

Well, I over simplified for simplicity's sake. My comment was more on the part where the poster said, "carbs are energy, you'll not be getting any, your body will "burn" fat to create energy.". Looking back, I may have misinterpreted what he was trying state, but I'm also aware of many misconceptions people have about low-carb diets. Biochemically, it seems like low-carbing might have an advantage when it comes to lipolysis, but in practice, we just don't see it. Whether it's low-carb or high-carb, if the calorie deficit is there, fat will be lost. If sparing muscle mass is the goal, then higher protein intake coupled with resistance training is key.

As for ketosis, the brain does use ketones in the absence of glucose, but it's not very efficient at this initially. For the brain to effectively utilise ketone bodies, it has to improve mitochondrial function in the brain, and it's thought to do this by increasing the number of mitochondria in the brain. This takes time, and this time is thought to account for the (usually) temporary brain fog associated with ketogenic diets. And to clarify, your brain doesn't '"burn" ketones to use up fat stores', it uses fatty acids to make ketones because the brain now doesn't have glucose and cannot utilise fatty acids for fuel. There will still be some glucose trickling around for a variety of reasons (one being low carbers generally have higher serum cortisol which induces gluconeogenesis), but yes this will mostly be diverted to the brain.

And yeah, pH drops a little, but I think it's still in the normal range. Only Type 1 diabetics can become ketoacidotic, as they have no insulin. As for ketoacidosis and cancer, yes cancer cells themselves induce acidosis so they've adapted to thrive in those conditions, though I'm fairly sure there are no long-term studies to confirming a diet induced ketosis linking to cancer. There's even a possible beneficial mechanism in that cancer cells primarily use glucose (well fructose I think actually?) and is inefficient at using ketones for fuel. But again, the studies aren't there, even if the mechanism is plausible it may not be beneficial over all.

And I'd be careful with the acidic-alkaline simplification. You most certainly do not want to be as alkaline as possible. Alkalosis has a whole heap of troubles too. People during a panic attack will hyperventilate and cause respiratory alkalosis leading to peripheral paraesthesiae. And metabolic alkalosis causes involuntary muscle spasms. Now, no healthy person is going to induce alkalosis to themselves by diet alone, but I'm just saying.

I'm not sure if we're really disagreeing on anything meaningful here, and it's possible(likely) I've gotten something wrong here. Just for the record, I'm not really a big fan on low-carb diets for hard training lifters/athletes etc. Reducing carbs can be usual in some cases, but a full blown ketogenic diet is a little extreme. If it helps people to lose weight healthily, then I'm not too bothered really as dropping unhealthy body fat is better. :)
 
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