Illegal substances are required to reach your true maximum, especially when you're years into training and can only put on around 12lbs of muscle a year if you're natural and very strict on training and diet.
*** The 2014 Gym Rats Thread ***
- Thread starter mrthingyx
- Start date
Illegal substances are required to reach your true maximum, especially when you're years into training and can only put on around 12lbs of muscle a year if you're natural and very strict on training and diet.
Soldato
- Joined
- 17 Jun 2010
- Posts
- 12,495
- Location
- London
Check this out - Alan Aragon and Eric Helms are two of the leading evidence based guys out there right now (if you lift, you should know who they are!). Yes it's 'contest prep' but most of the stuff applies to regular folks as well. In particular the macro recommendations and amount of weight loss that's deemed 'safe'.
EDIT - also in your case you can probably still make some gains at 25% bf - the leaner you get, the harder this becomes for various reasons. Obviously if you haven't trained in a while, there's a noob gains phase as well you can take advantage of.
Last edited:
I've had a bit of weird pain lately. It tends to present itself around the inner part of my arm where I would wear a watch and the pain stretches from close to my wrist through to maybe half way up my forearm. I tend to get it right at the start of bro curls mildly and then at the end of my set I'll get a fairly sharp strong pain that lasts a few seconds. I also get it when I'm picking up heavy (for me) weights for DB bench press. Strangely I don't seem to get it much on chin ups or other exercises that involve putting pressure on that part of my arm. There's also a general ache there (very mild) that sometimes gets worse after medium-length cycle rides.
Anyone have an ideas/advice? I would guess it's some kind of tendon injury or something but I'm far from an expertIdeally I wouldn't (temporarily) stop doing any lifting or cycling but obviously if I have to I will.
edit: Googling a little more I notice that hammer curls are mentioned a lot with this kind of thing. I do 3 * 8 regular curls and 3 * 8 hammer usually. Should I drop the hammer?
This is your body's way of telling you to do neutral and prorated chins, not hammer curls.
You are probably doing something nasty but transitory to the many and complicated muscles, tendons, fascias or ligaments in your forearm, so stick a hockey ball in there and roll it around for a bit.
Also, try some fat bar work for your pulling/pushing exercises...
You read that the wrong way
I'm saying that if you train right you can continue to make strength progress almost indefinitely at a given weight. The rate of progress will obviously slow down, however.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 16 May 2005
- Posts
- 31,297
- Location
- Manchester
This is your body's way of telling you to do neutral and prorated chins, not hammer curls.
You are probably doing something nasty but transitory to the many and complicated muscles, tendons, fascias or ligaments in your forearm, so stick a hockey ball in there and roll it around for a bit.
Also, try some fat bar work for your pulling/pushing exercises...
More than happy to do more and better chins rather than more curls of course, though at the moment I'm limited to an extremely basic bar that means that "wide grip" is just slightly wider than my shoulders :/ Also, the height isn't great. Still, can't complain given my living circumstances
I really do need to do some mobility work. I guess that is certainly a good portion of my problems, though I also imagine that I'm jumping up on my weight too soon and my form needs work (though I realise that improved mobility will help improve my form). I've also had a sore neck for a couple of weeks now since trying to do more of the DB sessions which I'm pretty sure is down to me not keeping my neck neutral during the various routines.
So... a few noob questions:
1) "neutral and prorated chins" - can you expand on that, in laymen's terms?
I can make a guess as to what it means but I'd just like to get it nailed down so I can be sure I'm doing the right thing.2) "fat bar work for your pulling/pushing exercises" - please can you expand again? I'm guessing you mean using a proper barbell rather than crappy dumbbell? If so, I'd really like to but I can only get away with having so much stuff in the place I live right now and my time constraints have stopped me going to a gym. I'm actively looking for a proper gym so nearby so I can get there and do a decent routine but for now.... I'm stuck with what I'm doing (posted below, just to spam the hell out of the thread).
My current routine is below. I've been really bad about it and have generally done something along the lines of do it every day Monday to Thursday or so and then take a couple of days rest. On top of this I do quite a lot of cycling.
(all below with DBs, weight is per arm obviously)
Day 1
Bench Press 4 * 8 * 25
Close Grip BP 3 * 8 * 25
Skull Crushers 3 * 8 * 12.5
Overhead Press 3 * 8 * 15 (lolz)
Lateral DB Raises 3 * 8 * 7.5 (cry)
Squats 4 * 8 * 27.5 (still finding my feet with these vs proper squats)
Day 2
Chin Ups (Alt. Grips) 4 * 8 (underarm/overarm)
Curls 3 * 8 * 17.5
Hammer Curls 3 * 8 * 17.5
BOR 3 * 8 * 22.5 (another one I'm still finding my feet with)
Rollouts 30
Squats 4 * 8 (as above)
There are a few times I don't do the squats (I know, I know) if I have particularly intensive cycling days to follow.
Last edited:
Wow - that is a lot of arm work!
Firstly, neutral,supinated and pronated are anatomical positions of the wrist:
Using neutral and pronated grip should - as a closed chain exercise (feet/hands fixed in space) - put less torsional stress on your wrist, letting it work in a "stable" manner (i.e. Neutral contraction across its structure, as opposed to curling and the one-sided stresses those exercises can cause).
Fat bar work is simply using something that is thicker than your existing dumbell... So use a FatGripz thing (if you live near Cambridge, I could probably lend you mine), or wrap a flannel round the DB hanle before you lift it. Why? To make your grip less stable and require your muscles to work a lot harder across your wrist... If it is neutral and in a good position. I spent most of the three months rehab-ing my broken wrist doing fat bar stuff and you KNOW it is working.
Firstly, neutral,supinated and pronated are anatomical positions of the wrist:
Using neutral and pronated grip should - as a closed chain exercise (feet/hands fixed in space) - put less torsional stress on your wrist, letting it work in a "stable" manner (i.e. Neutral contraction across its structure, as opposed to curling and the one-sided stresses those exercises can cause).
Fat bar work is simply using something that is thicker than your existing dumbell... So use a FatGripz thing (if you live near Cambridge, I could probably lend you mine), or wrap a flannel round the DB hanle before you lift it. Why? To make your grip less stable and require your muscles to work a lot harder across your wrist... If it is neutral and in a good position. I spent most of the three months rehab-ing my broken wrist doing fat bar stuff and you KNOW it is working.
Soldato
- Joined
- 11 Jun 2013
- Posts
- 2,632
How heavy do your db go? Missing some deadlift action in there I assume your working out at home?
I assume your working out at home?
░░░░░░▄▀▒▒▒▒░░░░▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒█
░░░░░█▒▒▒▒░░░░▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒█
░░░░█▒▒▄▀▀▀▀▀▄▄▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▄▄▀▀▀▀▀▀▄
░░▄▀▒▒▒▄█████▄▒█▒▒▒▒▒▒▒█▒▄█████▄▒█
░█▒▒▒▒▐██▄████▌▒█▒▒▒▒▒█▒▐██▄████▌▒█
▀▒▒▒▒▒▒▀█████▀▒▒█▒░▄▒▄█▒▒▀█████▀▒▒▒█
▒▒▐▒▒▒░░░░▒▒▒▒▒█▒░▒▒▀▒▒█▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒█
▒▌▒▒▒░░░▒▒▒▒▒▄▀▒░▒▄█▄█▄▒▀▄▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▌
▒▌▒▒▒▒░▒▒▒▒▒▒▀▄▒▒█▌▌▌▌▌█▄▀▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▐
▒▐▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▌▒▒▀███▀▒▌▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▌
▀▀▄▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▌▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▐▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒█
▀▄▒▀▄▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▐▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▄▄▄▄▒▒▒▒▒▒▄▄▀
▒▒▀▄▒▀▄▀▀▀▄▀▀▀▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▀░░░░▀▀▀▀▀▀
▒▒▒▒▀▄▐▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▐
░▄▄▄░░▄░░▄░▄░░▄░░▄░░░░▄▄░▄▄░░░▄▄▄░░░▄▄▄
█▄▄▄█░█▄▄█░█▄▄█░░█░░░█░░█░░█░█▄▄▄█░█░░░█
█░░░█░░█░░░░█░░░░█░░░█░░█░░█░█░░░█░█░░░█
▀░░░▀░░▀░░░░▀░░░░▀▀▀░░░░░░░░░▀░░░▀░▀▄▄▄▀
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 16 May 2005
- Posts
- 31,297
- Location
- Manchester
Wow - that is a lot of arm work!
Firstly, neutral,supinated and pronated are anatomical positions of the wrist:
Using neutral and pronated grip should - as a closed chain exercise (feet/hands fixed in space) - put less torsional stress on your wrist, letting it work in a "stable" manner (i.e. Neutral contraction across its structure, as opposed to curling and the one-sided stresses those exercises can cause).
Fat bar work is simply using something that is thicker than your existing dumbell... So use a FatGripz thing (if you live near Cambridge, I could probably lend you mine), or wrap a flannel round the DB hanle before you lift it. Why? To make your grip less stable and require your muscles to work a lot harder across your wrist... If it is neutral and in a good position. I spent most of the three months rehab-ing my broken wrist doing fat bar stuff and you KNOW it is working.
It's based on the 3 day split that is given in the new lifter guide on here but I dropped a couple of things and rolled it all up into two days to keep things simple (possibly a bad idea in retrospect...).
Thanks for the explanation regarding wrist positions. That really clears it up. I'll try to stick to less stressful positions for the vast majority of my exercises.
Also, fat bar work. I'll probably hold off on the vast majority of things that cause arm pain for now and replace that time with fat bar low weight stuff. Sound reasonable?
How heavy do your db go? Missing some deadlift action in there
They're oly DBs so with the plates I have right now I can maybe go up to ~35 per DB. I found DL with DBs to be really weird - I think I'm missing a trick with it. Mind pointing me in the right direction?
Last edited:
Don't necessarily worry about going light, although using fat bars typically causes weight reduction as it is so intensive on the forearms.
The key isn't the load (as you may have guessed) but the forces expressed across your joints: lifting with your wrist slightly kinked in one direction or the other will cause certain muscles to over-work, spasm and suffer mechanical samage as a result. The fun part is that this can also (over time) cause more damage to the cartilage and other semi-hard tissues in there.
Pulling exercises with fat bars are great because they force the wrist into a completely neutral alignment, yet get all the contractile apparatus of the wrist firing hard in a strong isometric contraction = great for stability.
If you are concerned about stability drop the load, sure, but the cool thing about pulling is that the wrist is pretty stable.
The key isn't the load (as you may have guessed) but the forces expressed across your joints: lifting with your wrist slightly kinked in one direction or the other will cause certain muscles to over-work, spasm and suffer mechanical samage as a result. The fun part is that this can also (over time) cause more damage to the cartilage and other semi-hard tissues in there.
Pulling exercises with fat bars are great because they force the wrist into a completely neutral alignment, yet get all the contractile apparatus of the wrist firing hard in a strong isometric contraction = great for stability.
If you are concerned about stability drop the load, sure, but the cool thing about pulling is that the wrist is pretty stable.
Soldato
- Joined
- 11 Jun 2013
- Posts
- 2,632
They're oly DBs so with the plates I have right now I can maybe go up to ~35 per DB. I found DL with DBs to be really weird - I think I'm missing a trick with it. Mind pointing me in the right direction?
Not me guvnor - Ima noob! Only done bar DLs too.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 16 May 2005
- Posts
- 31,297
- Location
- Manchester
Single leg dumbell RDLs.
Those do look fun but is there anything worthwhile that I can do with both legs at once?
Purely from a time point of view really :/
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 16 May 2005
- Posts
- 31,297
- Location
- Manchester
DB good mornings I guess is what I was doing before but I like the idea of nordic curls in there too. Though I'm not sure how serious you are with your suggestion
It looks quite fun anyhow.
Any of you guys switched from back squat to front?
I've been training for a good few years now doing back squats the entire time, my quads are decent but my glutes are just insanely large, like bubble butt large. They have a nice shape but they are really starting to make it difficult fitting into jeans, chinos etc
I would like to focus more on the vastus medialis and lateralis. The rectus femoris is fairly well developed.
Would switching to front squat reduce my glute size while focusing more on the above muscles?
I back squat 140-150kg for sets but could only do 70kg front squat, mind you I have only just started, is this a normal weight drop?
http://i.imgur.com/tgZDF6C.jpg
pic sorry about quality.
I've been training for a good few years now doing back squats the entire time, my quads are decent but my glutes are just insanely large, like bubble butt large. They have a nice shape but they are really starting to make it difficult fitting into jeans, chinos etc
I would like to focus more on the vastus medialis and lateralis. The rectus femoris is fairly well developed.
Would switching to front squat reduce my glute size while focusing more on the above muscles?
I back squat 140-150kg for sets but could only do 70kg front squat, mind you I have only just started, is this a normal weight drop?
http://i.imgur.com/tgZDF6C.jpg
pic sorry about quality.
Last edited:
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 16 May 2005
- Posts
- 31,297
- Location
- Manchester
I can't imagine that you're going to decrease the size of your glutes by continuing squatting, whatever the squat type you do. I could be wrong of course.
Getting more balance in your legs might be possible though.
Getting more balance in your legs might be possible though.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 16 May 2005
- Posts
- 31,297
- Location
- Manchester
Front squats always struck me as some kind of cruel joke rather than a real exercise
DB good mornings I guess is what I was doing before but I like the idea of nordic curls in there too. Though I'm not sure how serious you are with your suggestion
It looks quite fun anyhow.
I don't joke about Nordic curls - there is nothing remotely funny about them...
Nice.
Front squats will do more quad, sure, but high bar back squatting can do more or less the same thing. If you really want to front squat, then make sure your core is ready for a pounding.
Also, look at deficit Bulgarian split squats... Nothing is quite like them.
Front squats always struck me as some kind of cruel joke rather than a real exercise
Front squats for hypertrophy have actually been classed as 'torture' by the Geneva Convention. Most utterly miserable gym day was:
Front squats (12-10-10-8-8)
Pistol squats (3*8)
Deficit Bulgarian Split Squats (3*10)
I have never felt so ill or desperate to finish as after every set of that training block.