Why not hold out for a 2-3months and apply for new roles while you currently still have one... the knowledge that you're going to quit will be a relief surely anyway. It is much easier to get a new role if you're currently already employed... less likely to fall victim to bad luck again.
The 5 year plan to £50k - Accomplished.
- Thread starter craptakular
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Why not hold out for a 2-3months and apply for new roles while you currently still have one... the knowledge that you're going to quit will be a relief surely anyway. It is much easier to get a new role if you're currently already employed... less likely to fall victim to bad luck again.
No. You're assuming that I'm ignoring human agency. I am absolutely not. I am contesting how little the role that you think chance actually plays in our lives.
It is far, far more than you're giving it credit for.
The stoics had an anecdote about a dog tied to a cart that is rolling down hill. Imagine that you are that dog and the cart is life/fate/chance.
The cart is falling, crashing in to things and it is completely out of your control. As the dog is tied to that cart, it only has so much freedom with the slack of its lead. It can either be dragged behind the cart (as you're suggesting above to avoid re. empowerment) or it can run with the cart and wander off in directions as far as that lead will go, yet all the while tied to it.
Agency is good. It is how we respond to situations and it helps us move in directions. However, agency is and always will be only one side of the coin.
Persistence in a job-hunt is agency.
Finally landing interviews because HR decided to give you a shot, is chance.
Am I becoming clearer?
I don't want to hijack the thread, but since you asked. I've saved up some money. I'm going to do some volunteering work for the next couple of months then I'm doing a working holiday in Oz. I need the get away.
As for what I'm doing job-wise when I do come back... I haven't got a clue. I just know staying isn't working for me and it's time to go.
Chance does play a large role, probably the biggest role as far as some of the very successful oultiers are concerned - Zuckerberg was in the right place at the right time with the connections required to launch facebook...
He's likely still be a multi-millionaire working in some tech firm or other regardless(he had previously come up on the radar of Microsoft for a previous project) but the sucess of his company and the way it was launched had significant elements of chance.
Ditto to Gates(stumbling upon DOS - he didn't write it and IBM needing an OS at that time)
A certain skill set and lots of hard work is necessary but it isn't sufficient.
Though moving on from a near minimum wage role over the course of 5 years - you do have to be very very unlucky to not be able to manage that if actively trying to get away.
what they both had in common was the ability to recognise an opportunity and the willing to take the risk to do so.. that is different to chance..
It took me three years just to land full-time hours. In the two years I finally had the minimum wage (before it was about 7k pa) I've helped put myself into the position where I am now so I can get away.
Chance gave the opportunity.
Agency took it.
You can have all the agency in the world, but without chance it is meaningless.
If chance didn't play any role, all these stories of entrepreneurs who met repeated failure would be completely irrelevant. These people should clearly have hit the ground running on their first attempt!
I'm on £36K right now, my goal is 40K in 12 months, i plan to do some Project Management training and then look for team leader roles in IT
Nix, sorry you are wrong totally and utterly wrong on most of what you believe and you need to STOP creating deeply thought out crap that frankly is ANOTHER excuse. You have been clear all along, I don't agree with your premise or the level of influence you put on luck, because it is wrong. I say above and have on many of these sort of threads that luck has influence as does outside circumstance, but get this clear in your mind, YOU have more more often than not.
fair enough if you've got something planned like that - you've got something to put down on the CV so it isn't actually a gap per say and you've got a reason for not having a job when you get back... It is more of an issue if you were to say quit your job and just start job hunting while here - if that doesn't work out quickly then people start questioning why you left without a job to go to and why you're still unemployed - obviously traveling/working holiday can explain that.
Soldato
I'm 100% with Housey on this one. It's like he's posting from my mind.
recognizing opportunity and taking risks is another 'necessary' condition in those cases - it isn't sufficient though... there were huge elements of chance involved in both those cases - both in those sorts of opportunities presenting themselves in the first place and their risk paying off
no doubt both have talent but there are plenty of others with similar talent out there who've perhaps had different opportunities at different points in time and ended up with a few million in the bank rather than several billion... there are perhaps others who've taken risks and not had those risks pay off due to circumstances outside their control... had businesses fail, had marriages fail and divorce courts take half their assets.
obviously people who don't even take these sorts of risks in the first place have next to no chance of that sort of success... but it isn't completely meritocratic and chance plays a huge role - especially with the outliers like Gates, Zuckerberg etc..
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At no point have I said chance has no influence, it can and does. However, people like Zukerberg will be successful and take advantage of luck and chance that others won't or would miss. There will be loads of people on this very forum who have some incredible connections, contacts and opportunity all around them but will still be moaning about other peoples success, for that is life.
Think we have gone wayyyyy too off topic
I'm not sure why you're assuming that I don't think agency plays a role?
I have to apply for the jobs if I want them. I can make myself more attractive to employers through qualifications, volunteering, etc. That's agency and that's totally within our control. I have to buy a lottery ticket to have a chance to win.
What jobs are out there, what kind of person is reviewing your CV (like or dislike), how you accidentally find out about a job through a friend that hasn't been advertised yet, is all chance.
Not letting it beat you down and persisting would be agency.
I have to apply for the jobs if I want them. I can make myself more attractive to employers through qualifications, volunteering, etc. That's agency and that's totally within our control. I have to buy a lottery ticket to have a chance to win.
What jobs are out there, what kind of person is reviewing your CV (like or dislike), how you accidentally find out about a job through a friend that hasn't been advertised yet, is all chance.
Not letting it beat you down and persisting would be agency.
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Brothers from different (working class, no silver spoon) mothers?
Not arguing that.. but I would say that they could see the opportunity.. plenty of people get the chance but can't see or don't take the opportunity. I have a friend that's talked about setting up a business for maybe 2 years.. I even offered him the start up capital as I think its an excellent idea (although not my area of expertise or I would have started it myself).. still hasn't done anything as he is too comfortable in his 9 - 5..
I am relativity young (33) but seen plenty of people have great opportunities and just not recognise or take them..
Myself I have always taken what opportunities have presented even at a couple of times pretty high levels of risk.. if you're not happy with you lot in life change it.. life is to short to have regrets or be unhappy
To be honest, it's got to the point I'd probably have to do that anyway. As I said, it's a poisoned well and it's stopping me from growing as a person. Cutting losses is the least of my worries.
Being aware would be agency and personality to a large degree.
You being there to offer the capital would be chance.
Soldato
Its quite easy to get stuck in a dead end job, especially if the money is good. Its taking the risk (not inconsiderable if you have a family/mortgage etc) that some people will never do.
And yes, as well as hard work, I do believe you need a considerable amount of luck too.
And yes, as well as hard work, I do believe you need a considerable amount of luck too.
To be fair, all the extremely wealthy people I know have just been in the right place at the right time. That's not to say a lot of blood and sweat went into getting where it is now, it's just that there was some luck at the beginning!
Nix, have you thought about identifying companies you would like to work for and picking the phone up? Companies would often rather be approached with an idea than seek to pay a recruiter 15% to 35% of your first year salary. Your whole view on how business works is twisted by your own lack of success or circumstance, that is obvious.
Why is there a reliance on an agency or inside knowledge? Do your research YOURSELF, build your profile YOURSELF. Research and approach the companies you want YOURSELF. Spend time making yourself stand out. That might be how you look/dress, the skills you have, the consultants and agencies you use, the time you spend driving around to meet people to build a personal relationship with them.
You are 28 and have been in work for what, 5 years? I am 47 and have been in it for 30. I am trying to offer some real help not confront you on this.
I have found linkedin is handy, I'm sure if I wanted to I could contact some people from top world consultancies that have added me and discuss jumping ship.
Better yet if he has money saved then he has 5 years of experience, contacts and ideas.. and from the sounds of it not much to loose.. take that and start a business on the side.. at the worst its a learning experience at the best its the start of a new life..