I have a huge amount of wealthy friends purely through my social circle and business, not through choice just happened I share a passion that attracts lots of wealthy sorts (not coke). Some of them have grown up with silver spoon, some have inherited money though little effort, most have worked their nuts off, are incredibly skilled people (hard working, education, insightful, inventive, entrepreneurial) and have done what they did through hard work and applying those skills. I am not close to their success but frankly in my 47 years peoples success is rarely down to luck and luck has helped them occasionally but is not the route cause of success to the fact where without there various bits of luck they would still be achieving great personal wealth.
The 5 year plan to £50k - Accomplished.
- Thread starter craptakular
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I have a huge amount of wealthy friends purely through my social circle and business, not through choice just happened I share a passion that attracts lots of wealthy sorts (not coke). Some of them have grown up with silver spoon, some have inherited money though little effort, most have worked their nuts off, are incredibly skilled people (hard working, education, insightful, inventive, entrepreneurial) and have done what they did through hard work and applying those skills. I am not close to their success but frankly in my 47 years peoples success is rarely down to luck and luck has helped them occasionally but is not the route cause of success to the fact where without there various bits of luck they would still be achieving great personal wealth.
Soldato
Housey spot on as usual!
The mentions of people like Zuckerberg and Gates are laughable, it's quite obvious they would have had degrees of success even if they hadn't had the 'chance' to hit on something massive.
The mentions of people like Zuckerberg and Gates are laughable, it's quite obvious they would have had degrees of success even if they hadn't had the 'chance' to hit on something massive.
Look, I know you're not confronting me. You're just differing in opinion. Variety is the spice of life and all that. Maybe you had to work very hard to get where you are and even admitting that luck played any significant factor feels like it undermines what you've done. I don't know, it's irrelevant. The bottom line is, I see things differently from you for a very valid reason. It doesn't mean that my view on business is twisted at all.
For you to understand the whys and wherefores of my situation I'd need to walk you through the past six years (and more) of my life and I don't really want to be airing my dirty laundry on the forums.
I have tried very hard to find a way out of this hole over the years and I will admit there has been periods of time where I lost the will to fight, but as I said... I've been dealing with some dark stuff for a long time and it does that to you.
For me to get where I am now has taken the strong qualities which you seem certain would mean financial success in a truly meritocratic society, yet where I'm stood I've been robbed of a large portion of my 20s due to circumstances beyond my control. For people to then look down on me for being unfortunate enough to be in such a position (the inherent understanding that because I'm not earning more, I must deserve to be earning less) is quite frankly unhelpful and cruel.
you've completely missed the point, the idea that they'd likely have some sucess regardless is mentioned in the post anyway
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Soldato
Sieze opportunities. If there are none, do what it takes to create them. I live by this.
I think luck gets underestimated sometimes - even with things that should be very meritocratic/skill based like say being a footballer. It's a game nearly every school kid plays - ostensibly talent should emerge naturally.
There is actually a big link with the month of the year you were born... when kids play football the older kids within a particular school year say the 9 year olds close to 10 years old have a significant physical advantage over the kids who haven't hit their 9th birthday yet - more likely to be picked for the better team etc... It actually results in higher portions of people born within certain months ending up as professional footballers... there is a big element of chance there - the other factors such as natural talent, encouraging parents etc..etc.. can be present across the range of kids but that big chance element emerges in the data.
There is actually a big link with the month of the year you were born... when kids play football the older kids within a particular school year say the 9 year olds close to 10 years old have a significant physical advantage over the kids who haven't hit their 9th birthday yet - more likely to be picked for the better team etc... It actually results in higher portions of people born within certain months ending up as professional footballers... there is a big element of chance there - the other factors such as natural talent, encouraging parents etc..etc.. can be present across the range of kids but that big chance element emerges in the data.
Nix, stop looking back, right now, stop. If you can do that you have made a step forward. You are still a young guy, YOU can decided how the rest of you life goes and it should start with stopping negativity to your own circumstance. You keep telling everyone that they don't understand or that its because of luck or agencies or whatever. That is wasted emotion, it is a pointless debate and even if it is all 100% fact for your own personal circumstance (which it REALLY won't be) it matters not one bit.
Draw a line tonight and look forward. Baggage needs dropping right now, it will weigh you down and frankly lose you any sympathy as you will be the bloke in the corner sulking who always looks depressed. I speak from someone who has been that person too...just in case you think it's just you. I say again, stop using luck as an excuse, you have done it several times in this thread and decide what would be the perfect job or life and try to understand how you can get there.
Calling an agency Monday and putting a new font on your CV is not the way....just in case you were wondering. Good luck.
Surely Nix the proof is in the pudding. If you applied yourself for 20 years solid after graduating and still were that agressively discontent with your job situation then everyone in the universe is going to think that the overriding point of causation is you, and it will be pretty hard for you convincingly bat the ball back.
Hopefully you can use your time off in the near future to polish your skill sets and secure a job that you'd be content with.
As for pay, generally I guess that depends on your commercially valuable your skill set is rather than merely being based on stress / difficulty. Dem poor nurses
Hopefully you can use your time off in the near future to polish your skill sets and secure a job that you'd be content with.
As for pay, generally I guess that depends on your commercially valuable your skill set is rather than merely being based on stress / difficulty. Dem poor nurses
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![[FnG]magnolia](/styles/overclockers/avatars/9.png){kind=avatar}
Caporegime
I'm not picking sides but Housey's views align most closely with my own.
I think there's a fine line between dismissing luck as unnecessary and blaming lack of luck for lack of success, and sometimes that tipping point comes when something actually does go your way that maybe you didn't expect because you were working your ass off on something else.
Thomas Jefferson said, “I'm a greater believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it” and whilst it's a little trite of me to repeat someone else's soundbite, it's undeniably true.
Anyway, well done OP
I think there's a fine line between dismissing luck as unnecessary and blaming lack of luck for lack of success, and sometimes that tipping point comes when something actually does go your way that maybe you didn't expect because you were working your ass off on something else.
Thomas Jefferson said, “I'm a greater believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it” and whilst it's a little trite of me to repeat someone else's soundbite, it's undeniably true.
Anyway, well done OP
I appreciate the advice, but I'm already trying to move on and forcing change by leaving is part of that. It's madness to stay where I am. I don't deserve this and I never did.
I'm trying very hard to focus on what I can do now, because I agree what's done is done. But, I also need space to process what's happened. You can probably tell I'm angry about it. That's a normal part of grieving. What I need is time and change. This is why I'm doing the working-holiday.
I'm just really not looking forward to bleakness of the job hunt when I'm back. I'm secretly hoping I'll get a stroke of good luck and things will just... work out. But, I know that's probably a pipe-dream and I'm going to have to endure being out of work again and the "you're just not good enough" undertones of rejection.
Short of going back to get a masters (irrelevant as I don't know what job I want), I've tried all I can to improve myself on paper. The problem is going to stem from not-knowing. Depression takes that away from you too, so there is a chance I'll have some clarity when I get away, but just in-case it doesn't I have to be prepared.
When I sit to apply for jobs, not only do I not know what to look for, or where to start, I'm confronted over and over with roles that either sound empty and utterly soul-destroying (profit for profit's sake... **** the people) or which make demands of experience that I simply cannot meet. It's bleak and for someone in a dark-place, it's crushing.
"Why do you want this job?"
"Because I want to get paid."
It would be much better if I could say:
"Because this is what I want to do."
Not knowing what I want combined with having a not so unreasonable desire to have a job that I don't mind getting up to do everyday is the problem. When I find them, I'm usually knocked back at the first hurdle as I don't come near the requirements. It's an employer's market out there.
For all purposes I'm still trying to get on the ladder. Your opinions of agency would definitely be more valid once you're on that ladder. Until then, it's a grind and a stroke of luck to get on it.
Maybe I'll stumble across something that's perfect for me when I'm back. But then, that will be chance.
I'm trying very hard to focus on what I can do now, because I agree what's done is done. But, I also need space to process what's happened. You can probably tell I'm angry about it. That's a normal part of grieving. What I need is time and change. This is why I'm doing the working-holiday.
I'm just really not looking forward to bleakness of the job hunt when I'm back. I'm secretly hoping I'll get a stroke of good luck and things will just... work out. But, I know that's probably a pipe-dream and I'm going to have to endure being out of work again and the "you're just not good enough" undertones of rejection.
Short of going back to get a masters (irrelevant as I don't know what job I want), I've tried all I can to improve myself on paper. The problem is going to stem from not-knowing. Depression takes that away from you too, so there is a chance I'll have some clarity when I get away, but just in-case it doesn't I have to be prepared.
When I sit to apply for jobs, not only do I not know what to look for, or where to start, I'm confronted over and over with roles that either sound empty and utterly soul-destroying (profit for profit's sake... **** the people) or which make demands of experience that I simply cannot meet. It's bleak and for someone in a dark-place, it's crushing.
"Why do you want this job?"
"Because I want to get paid."
It would be much better if I could say:
"Because this is what I want to do."
Not knowing what I want combined with having a not so unreasonable desire to have a job that I don't mind getting up to do everyday is the problem. When I find them, I'm usually knocked back at the first hurdle as I don't come near the requirements. It's an employer's market out there.
For all purposes I'm still trying to get on the ladder. Your opinions of agency would definitely be more valid once you're on that ladder. Until then, it's a grind and a stroke of luck to get on it.
Maybe I'll stumble across something that's perfect for me when I'm back. But then, that will be chance.
Study something perhaps while you're traveling? Gain some knowledge/skills - just juggle the time when you're out there. Maybe some coursera courses - they're free and you can just ditch/unregister from subjects that don't inspire you... maybe looking at a few a good way to find something you're interested in.
10 years ago I was serving in Iraq and found time to study - some days when we had various patrols etc.. no chance, other days on QRF (quick reaction force) tasks or when stagging on we'd have a bit of time waiting around... que me sat in a porta cabin next to the airfield reading notes on on securities, derivatives, financial regulations etc... but still ready to run out to the helicopter as soon as we were called out.
If you're struggling for things to say in an interview I think going traveling might change that - don't become a travel bore 'This one time when I was in Oz...' at every opportunity, but it could certainly provide some things to talk about when they ask various generic interview questions... (obviously this applies more if you go around the place and have various 'adventures'/experiences not just stay in one place getting hammered and banging backpacker girls)
Soldato
He has some good rules. Clearly speaking from experience.
Knowing what I want is something that's beyond me right now and has been for years. You're just going to have to trust me when I tell you the sheer amount of effort and frustration that's gone in into trying to work it out, but being depressed I was fighting a losing battle. At its worst, nothing engages you and everything is very, very meaningless.
I'm doing the volunteering soon to see if it's an industry that I want to get in to. When I'm away, I'm just going to recharge the batteries, catch up on some missed growth, gain a few stories and generally just take it as it comes. I'm planning on getting my PADI Open Water when I'm out there. It's not much, but it's a little extra talking point on the CV.
As I said though, the biggest problem is trying to work out what to do. I don't even know what sector or industry. Being 'sick' has made everything seem awful.
I'm hoping when I come back, job-hunting won't be so bleak and things will finally move forward.
EDIT:
Since this seems to be on topic now, I think people will find this interesting: http://www.reddit.com/r/getdisciplined/comments/1q96b5/i_just_dont_care_about_myself/cdah4af
I'm doing the volunteering soon to see if it's an industry that I want to get in to. When I'm away, I'm just going to recharge the batteries, catch up on some missed growth, gain a few stories and generally just take it as it comes. I'm planning on getting my PADI Open Water when I'm out there. It's not much, but it's a little extra talking point on the CV.
As I said though, the biggest problem is trying to work out what to do. I don't even know what sector or industry. Being 'sick' has made everything seem awful.
I'm hoping when I come back, job-hunting won't be so bleak and things will finally move forward.
EDIT:
Since this seems to be on topic now, I think people will find this interesting: http://www.reddit.com/r/getdisciplined/comments/1q96b5/i_just_dont_care_about_myself/cdah4af
Nix what is your degree in?
I'm the same age as Nix without a degree working in close to minimum wage. I'm reluctant to take a chance on moving away from where I've worked for the past 6 years, due to the fact that the last time I took a chance on a role it just so happened the manager that took me on was replaced a month after I started, and the new one just binned me off straight away. How is that not unlucky? Then the financial crisis hit, double unlucky... from there has just been a never ending trend of low paid jobs with terrible conditions (zero-hour contracts, unsociable shift work, abusive and rude customers etc), with a fear of ending down at the Jobcentre to sign on if that bad luck shows up again.
I know that if I took a chance to move jobs I could probably do a lot better, however it's the chance that things could be much worse that makes me debate it to the point I just carry on with what I do. I am studying with the OU now though, making some attempt to improve what I am on paper.
However, having said all this, congratulations to the OP. He has taken his chances, looked outwardly and had the balls to seize the opportunities that presented themselves, one day I hope I'll have the courage to do the same.
I know that if I took a chance to move jobs I could probably do a lot better, however it's the chance that things could be much worse that makes me debate it to the point I just carry on with what I do. I am studying with the OU now though, making some attempt to improve what I am on paper.
However, having said all this, congratulations to the OP. He has taken his chances, looked outwardly and had the balls to seize the opportunities that presented themselves, one day I hope I'll have the courage to do the same.
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Don
In some points, you are right. Ignoring the cart and dog story (there's always a way to get off), the bit which I completely disagree with is:
Wrong. Landing an interview (HR doesn't give you the job, just dots the I's and crosses the T's) is based upon skill, not chance. If you respond to an available job interview, with a perfect CV, then you'll get an interview. You turn up to the interview, looking the business, sounding the business and expertly selling yourself and your skills, better than any of the other candidates then you'll get the job.
Failing to get an interview is down to two prime things. A poorly written CV and lack of experience.
There is the old catch 22 about getting experience as someone does have to take a chance of you (which is 'chance'), but they're taking a chance on you and who you are. Is that really chance? Not really, you've obviously done something well enough at that point, for them to say "Yes, we'll interview you". Interviews aren't decided on a coin toss.