The 5 year plan to £50k

[Dunks]

I think what we can take from this thread is that uni is not the only way to get into decent money I personally recommend every 18yo+ to skip uni, debt etc and go for an apprenticeship. Especially if they have an idea of what they want to do.

me, my brother, my ex and now my current gf all have decent roles after apprenticeships and 0 uni debt.

How old are you? I'm under the impression that many 'professional' roles these days require a degree regardless of what the job actually is these days, so on the other hand you close a lot of doors by not having a degree. I mention age as I'm somewhat sceptical that the same apprenticeship opportunities are available for 'generation *********'.

26, did my apprenticeship when I was 21.

My younger brother did it a year before me at 18.

many professional roles might require that but experience is more important than a degree these days. Something companies are slowly finding out.

I'm hoping you wouldn't recommend someone who wanted become a Chartered Accountant, Chartered Engineer or Solicitor to skip University!

But I do agree with you that University is definitely not the only way to a fulfilling and well paying career!

 

[Rifte]

I spent 5 years at University (Bachelor and 2 x MAs in law). Ultimately I turned my back on it and didnt use any of it at all professionally.

Luckily for me I was one of the last few years where my Bachelors was state funded, my MAs were both scholarship funded completely.

I left uni with pretty much zero debt.

 

[Axeboy]

Interesting thread, good read.

I'm probably the same as many in their thirties who went for it in their twenties and got to a comfortable point in life. Then after a certain level of income things don't really change much, yes you can buy more items but happiness becomes the focus.

For me, I'm planning on reducing salary significantly but aiming for a job that I actually really enjoy and feel fulfilled by. 20 years in the same industry brings experience and value that is rewarded but I cant say I'm as interested in it now as I once was.

No kids yet, but not long, I'd much rather spend time with family than work every day. Of course bills still need to be paid, but my balance will hopefully be far more swayed towards family, friends and happiness than work.

Actually, it was probably when my Dad passed away that I realised all that. He worked so hard and put in so much effort for the business he worked in, but it was relatively meaningless at the end of the day.

 

[dowie]

I'm hoping you wouldn't recommend someone who wanted become a Chartered Accountant, Chartered Engineer or Solicitor to skip University!

not trying to be super pedantic but just to provide more for the alternative re: university not actually being essential:

It is fairly straightforward and not exactly uncommon to become a chartered accountant without going to university, I suggested it to the OP on page 2 of this thread, he could have nearly qualified by now if he'd wanted to pursue that (understandably plenty of people don't want to become chartered accountants!). In fact by sitting the exams for say ACCA you can pick up a degree along the way anyway.

Chartered Engineers don't necessarily require degrees either but I believe do need to demonstrate experience equivalent to a masters. Also (IIRC) there might even be some back door route to becoming a solicitor without an undergrad degree though probably involves something like spending years as a legal secretary or something....

(tbh.. I still think a good degree from a good university is well worthwhile and can certainly open more doors)

 

[Dunks]

not trying to be super pedantic but just to provide more for the alternative re: university not actually being essential:

It is fairly straightforward and not exactly uncommon to become a chartered accountant without going to university, I suggested it to the OP on page 2 of this thread, he could have nearly qualified by now if he'd wanted to pursue that (understandably plenty of people don't want to become chartered accountants!). In fact by sitting the exams for say ACCA you can pick up a degree along the way anyway.

Chartered Engineers don't necessarily require degrees either but I believe do need to demonstrate experience equivalent to a masters. Also (IIRC) there might even be some back door route to becoming a solicitor without an undergrad degree though probably involves something like spending years as a legal secretary or something....

(tbh.. I still think a good degree from a good university is well worthwhile and can certainly open more doors)

Yeah, as soon I saw the alert that you responded I quickly ran through the same thought process you've just outlined

Becoming a CEng these days without an actual Bachelors/Masters will be pretty difficult though without doing some sort of formal education part time to meet the educational requirements, but still technically possible to use work experience alone.

Now they're scrapping the LPC and GDL I wonder if you need an undergraduate degree to sit the exam that will be replacing them?

 

[Freefaller]

not trying to be super pedantic but just to provide more for the alternative re: university not actually being essential:

It is fairly straightforward and not exactly uncommon to become a chartered accountant without going to university, I suggested it to the OP on page 2 of this thread, he could have nearly qualified by now if he'd wanted to pursue that (understandably plenty of people don't want to become chartered accountants!). In fact by sitting the exams for say ACCA you can pick up a degree along the way anyway.

Chartered Engineers don't necessarily require degrees either but I believe do need to demonstrate experience equivalent to a masters. Also (IIRC) there might even be some back door route to becoming a solicitor without an undergrad degree though probably involves something like spending years as a legal secretary or something....

(tbh.. I still think a good degree from a good university is well worthwhile and can certainly open more doors)

You're right re: engineers. Though, they do have to do a lot of vocational qualifications to become chartered, and many end up doing a degree. However you can start off the EngTech route, then IEng, then end up CEng, it might just take you a little longer. You get get engineering diplomas which will be enough to get you to EngTech and potentially IEng, CEng however does require either a shedload of experience or some form of formal qualification (not necessarily degree).

 

[atpbx]

Are you saying you wouldn't want to earn that type of money if it meant a few nights a year clicking around a quote system and sending an email?

It's not a couple of nights, it's every night.

You pretty much get out what you put in here, I sit roughly in the middle of the league table, I don't get chased for not putting it in, I don't get noticed for being at the top.

That does me.

However in answer to your question, it's quite obviously the case isn't it, because that's exactly what I'm not doing.

 

[Nitefly]

You can become a chartered legal executive without jumping through the LPC hoops but I've never heard of anyone doing that without a degree.... not sure if it's mandatory but yeah, good luck.

 

[Diddums]

Slightly unrelated:

I love reading posts from people who say they earn massive wedge and that's it. Make no mistake: Earning big bucks is in 99% of the cases very stressful, demanding, hard work. Many folks who earn big bank usually have their phones on them at all times and have to be reachable 24/7. Let's not paint a pretty picture of roses & sunshine whilst cashing in massive amounts of chips, it takes a lot to get there and stay there.

 

[Ayahuasca]

What's big bucks to you Diddums? I wouldn't say 99% of those on 50k fall under that criteria at all and 50k a year puts you in the top 10%-15%

 

[Diddums]

I'm thinking £100k+

I work my arse off for what I earn. It's nowhere near £100k but it's still over 50 so I can't complain.

It also helps that I love my job, and I'm ridiculously good at it.

 

[BigT]

So this prompted me to plot my salary at various ages throughout my career. I've taken the scale off as it is not about bragging, but it's a decent representation of someone in the 'regular' tech industry (so not fintech or startups or very specialised stuff) starting out as a programmer and moving up a management career path. I hope it might be of interest for those of you pursuing such goals.

For reference the jobs I changed to at various ages, all tech sector related (except one not-for-profit but it was IT-centric) :

21 - Placement year as junior developer
22 - final year at Uni
23 - Junior Developer on graduate scheme
25 - Junior Project Manager
27 - Programme Manager
28 - Ops Director (not-for-profit)
32 - Bid Director
35 - Ops director
40 - COO

 

[D.P.]

Slightly unrelated:

I love reading posts from people who say they earn massive wedge and that's it. Make no mistake: Earning big bucks is in 99% of the cases very stressful, demanding, hard work. Many folks who earn big bank usually have their phones on them at all times and have to be reachable 24/7. Let's not paint a pretty picture of roses & sunshine whilst cashing in massive amounts of chips, it takes a lot to get there and stay there.

I work about 6 hours a day for my 85K, I work from home with zero commute, and hours are super flexible. I like what I'm doing most of the time.

My wife is starting a new job next year on 140K GBP as a Professor of management. The actual contracted work hours are about 6 hours a week for 12 weeks, a summer break and then 6 hours a week for another 12 weeks (the hours where she has to teach). Of course she will have to work outside those hours preparing classes and more over, research but again hours are entirely flexible and msot weeks ware not more than about 30-35. Plus she enjoys every minute. Consdienr she sent 5 years doing basicaly the exact same thing not getting paid to do it during here PhD, getting 140K to do the same thing is a real joy.


Lets not paint a false picture that earning high a salary requires high workload and high stress. It often does but you can get a high salary without a stressful job by working in certain fields where there isa sills shortage. Right now good software engineering are in really tight supply, lots of head hunting going on, new employees getting 50K sign-on bonuses. Super competitive market for employers, employees get to pick a salary. Very easy for a good software engineer in the US to get $150K USD without being spectacular, if they are willing to relocate to Seattle or bay area etc. I have friends approaching $200K USD in these citeis, they don't more more than 40 hours a week, no need to bend over backwards for the employer, quite the opposite.

 

[Freefaller]

Slightly unrelated:

I love reading posts from people who say they earn massive wedge and that's it. Make no mistake: Earning big bucks is in 99% of the cases very stressful, demanding, hard work. Many folks who earn big bank usually have their phones on them at all times and have to be reachable 24/7. Let's not paint a pretty picture of roses & sunshine whilst cashing in massive amounts of chips, it takes a lot to get there and stay there.

I work pretty long hours, but no weekends, though I do travel at least once a week, often with an overnight stay. My work phone goes off at the weekend too.

 

[Housey]

Good companies focus on output and results, not hours. Now the reality is hours tend to be longer to get said output and results, but typically that will be at specific times of a year, quarter, project. It is rare to earn really well on a normal 9 to 5 job, very rare. By very well I mean 250k upwards but also for guys that are getting towards 100K they will in most cases work the hours they need to work, they won't be clock watching they will just find their week is closer to 50 hours than 40 hours I suspect.

 

[tom_e]

It very much depends on the sector you work in as well I've got a friend who is a director of a security company his wage is on par with mine once I move to my new job but his hours are long, he does more miles in 2 months than I commute in a whole year and is on call 1 weekend in 4 and even when not on call it's rare his phone doesn't go off at least twice outside of his normal working hours but that's the reality of that sort of business.

 

[Housey]

To the OP I don't think you will reach your goal outside of inflation getting you to that point or career progression through 'just getting there' than actually making a decision that moves you up the wage bracket quickly. I don't know you at all so all I have is your posting on this thread and I see a chap who is never going to grasp his career and move it forward at pace, someone who makes the changes or takes the risks needed to elevate his career. Please don't take that as criticism as it most certainly isn't meant to be, just my view based on your commentary on this thread. By all means prove me wrong and all power to you, but you will need to forget worrying so much about stuff you can't influence and just get on with making some decisions.

Focus first on health, family and happiness, money comes after that I promise you.

 

[Housey]

It very much depends on the sector you work in as well I've got a friend who is a director of a security company his wage is on par with mine once I move to my new job but his hours are long, he does more miles in 2 months than I commute in a whole year and is on call 1 weekend in 4 and even when not on call it's rare his phone doesn't go off at least twice outside of his normal working hours but that's the reality of that sort of business.

Yup. All very well wanting to earn 6 figures but you need to be in a place or industry that pays those sorts of wages as outside of London most don't.

 

[BigT]

Good companies focus on output and results, not hours. Now the reality is hours tend to be longer to get said output and results, but typically that will be at specific times of a year, quarter, project. It is rare to earn really well on a normal 9 to 5 job, very rare. By very well I mean 250k upwards but also for guys that are getting towards 100K they will in most cases work the hours they need to work, they won't be clock watching they will just find their week is closer to 50 hours than 40 hours I suspect.

This is all very true. We try and adopt the mantra of, "As long as you don't let a customer down or a colleague down then work when and where you want to get the job done". Most of our six figure earners probably do 50 hours a week, maybe 60 if it's really busy. But they chop and change their working patterns to make it compatible with their home lives. Makes for a very happy and productive workforce.

 

[Kenai]

You're right re: engineers. Though, they do have to do a lot of vocational qualifications to become chartered, and many end up doing a degree. However you can start off the EngTech route, then IEng, then end up CEng, it might just take you a little longer. You get get engineering diplomas which will be enough to get you to EngTech and potentially IEng, CEng however does require either a shedload of experience or some form of formal qualification (not necessarily degree).

It's such a ball ache to get CEng without an accredited degree these days that it's almost certainly easier to just do a part time Masters than to prove yourself through career learning assessments etc.