** The AMD Navi Thread **

[Killer7xx]

Can only hope that AMD are purposely holding back 5800/5900 otherwise the hype train is well and truly derailed.

We probably won't see the 5800/5900 until the high end GPUs launch next year and those GPUs might even be next-gen instead of Navi.

 

[Besty]

other way round

Until AMD come up with a response to the faux-Gold plated Titan....

 

[DragonQ]

Exactly this. There is no upscaling at all.

Think of it as simply playing with the screen contrast settings. It isn't changing the resolution at all, it is just making some dark pixels darker and some light pixels.lighterx particularly on edges. This makes it look slightly sharper, but the resolution is the same.


The bottom line is with AMD and Nvidia's sharpening, there is no performance benefit and no upscaling, simply the image quality changes

I hate this effect on TVs and am sure I will hate it on GPUs.

 

[shankly1985]

I hate this effect on TVs and am sure I will hate it on GPUs.

GPU scaling and display scaling have always been around for years.
Amd is doing something different with this old technique to improve the image quality.

Looking at this from outside the box it looks like Amd have found another way to get something similar like DLSS by using something that has been around for years and improving it.

It's like Freesync all over again.

 

[D.P.]

GPU scaling and display scaling have always been around.
Amd is doing something different with this old technique to improve the image quality.

No they are simply sharpening an image. If you send a 1440p image to a 1440p monitor then no scaling happens, if you apply AMD's or Nvidia's sharpening then you increase edge contrast and the image will image a little sharper. If you only render at 1080 then either the screen or GPU can stretch that to 1440p, but the sharpening is not doing any upscaling. At best, with AMD's sharpening it can be applied after the internal scaler (some lame bicubic scaler), which will counteract some of the softness you get with naive transformation methods. But this still has absolutely nothing to do with super resolution and is just using the same old scaling methods around since the first digital screens and TVs.

I don;t blame you for being confused. AMD have purposed tried to be confusing here, and have misleading tried to compare their sharpening to DLSS on purpose because AMD have no answer to DLSS. AMD should be applying it do Nvidia's sharpening filter and highlighting any differences. Anything AMD is doing with sharpening NVidia has either been doing for some time or could implement in drivers very quickly.

But in any-case it doesn't at all replace what DLSS does. If anything, more advanced sharpening filters are more useful after applying DLSS to upscale an image by increasing sharpness. If people are complaining about the softness of DLSS then a sharpening filter is a simply remedy, already in Nvidia's drivers.

 

[shankly1985]

No they are simply sharpening an image. If you send a 1440p image to a 1440p monitor then no scaling happens, if you apply AMD's or Nvidia's sharpening then you increase edge contrast and the image will image a little sharper. If you only render at 1080 then either the screen or GPU can stretch that to 1440p, but the sharpening is not doing any upscaling. At best, with AMD's sharpening it can be applied after the internal scaler (some lame bicubic scaler), which will counteract some of the softness you get with naive transformation methods. But this still has absolutely nothing to do with super resolution and is just using the same old scaling methods around since the first digital screens and TVs.

I don;t blame you for being confused. AMD have purposed tried to be confusing here, and have misleading tried to compare their sharpening to DLSS on purpose because AMD have no answer to DLSS. AMD should be applying it do Nvidia's sharpening filter and highlighting any differences. Anything AMD is doing with sharpening NVidia has either been doing for some time or could implement in drivers very quickly.

But in any-case it doesn't at all replace what DLSS does. If anything, more advanced sharpening filters are more useful after applying DLSS to upscale an image by increasing sharpness. If people are complaining about the softness of DLSS then a sharpening filter is a simply remedy, already in Nvidia's drivers.

Listen DP
You confused here lol

We are not taking about using the native res like AMDs demo it was running at 1440p on a 4k display and upscaled on the GPU and then sharpening to make the image look better.

It's not rocket science, I do like how you keep adding nvidia into this? Damage control at its best nvidia doesn't do what amd is doing here.

They is clearly more at work here and we will know more come July 7th.

Question why does it only work on dx12 amd Vulkan if all it does is a basic sharpening? It's also locked to navi

 

[TheRealDeal]

Who cares what resolution or whatever is happening to get the end result. All that really matters is the end product and how it looks to the eye. What was reported is the AMD screen looks better with good performance. If that holds true when reviewers test it out v dlss then I do not care how it's done.

 

[shankly1985]

Who cares what resolution or whatever is happening to get the end result. All that really matters is the end product and how it looks to the eye. What was reported is the AMD screen looks better with good performance. If that holds true when reviewers test it out v dlss then I do not care how it's done.

Exactly what I keep saying. Dp is on major damage control here.

 

[TNA]

Listen DP
You confused here lol

We are not taking about using the native res like AMDs demo it was running at 1440p on a 4k display and upscaled on the GPU and then sharpening to make the image look better.

It's not rocket science, I do like how you keep adding nvidia into this? Damage control at its best nvidia doesn't do what amd is doing here.

They is clearly more at work here and we will know more come July 7th.

Question why does it only work on dx12 amd Vulkan if all it does is a basic sharpening? It's also locked to navi

DP tries to make DLSS sound like it is something special, but in its current form it is not. Until they actually get it right what AMD are doing might even actually be better anyways. The result is what counts in the end, not how you got there.

 

[D.P.]

Listen DP
You confused here lol

We are not taking about using the native res like AMDs demo it was running at 1440p on a 4k display and upscaled on the GPU and then sharpening to make the image look better.

It's not rocket science, I do like how you keep adding nvidia into this? Damage control at its best nvidia doesn't do what amd is doing here.

They is clearly more at work here and we will know more come July 7th.

Question why does it only work on dx12 amd Vulkan if all it does is a basic sharpening? It's also locked to navi

I'm adding Nvidia because Nvidia offer the same sharpening in their driver for a couple of years. AMD is sharpening an image using simple filtering techniques. Nvidia already do this.

As to APi, AMD also says it works in DX 9 ad I assume DX 10 and DX11 come along soon but their drivers aren't ready.
IF AMD lock it to Navi then they are just trying to differentiate hardware, just another marketing gimmick. But I also heard that this is coming to Vega and Polaris so We will see. There is no fundamental reason why this couldn't be done for any GPU.



You still don;t seem to understand what AMD's sharpening is doing.

 

[D.P.]

Exactly what I keep saying. Dp is on major damage control here.

There is no damage to control AMD has released somehtign which Nvidia have been offering for a couple of years, so who cares?

If anyone is doing dmagae control it is you. AMD have had another terrible launch and you are trying to market more of their gimmicks while fundamentally not understanding what the word "sharpening" means.

 

[D.P.]

Who cares what resolution or whatever is happening to get the end result. All that really matters is the end product and how it looks to the eye. What was reported is the AMD screen looks better with good performance. If that holds true when reviewers test it out v dlss then I do not care how it's done.

But it is not the same end result. that is the point.

And if you liek what AMd has done you can already do the same with Pascal and Turing cards, just go in to the drivers and enable the sharpening. Job done.

 

[Brazo]

Exactly what I keep saying. Dp is on major damage control here.

In the Navi thread?!!!!!

 

[TheRealDeal]

But it is not the same end result. that is the point.

And if you liek what AMd has done you can already do the same with Pascal and Turing cards, just go in to the drivers and enable the sharpening. Job done.

Yea you are correct as the end result looked better than dlss according to those in attendance.

 

[D.P.]

In the Navi thread?!!!!!

I'm discussing Navi technology ion the Navi tread, yes, oh the shock.


I forgot that no one on the OCUK graphics forum actually likes to discuss technology. Everything is about points scoring and marketing your preferred IHV with absolutely no basis in reality.
Childish squibs like "damage control" when you have no intelligent response.

 

[D.P.]

Yea you are correct as the end result looked better than dlss according to those in attendance.

But it has nothing to do with DLSS. The end result is very different.

AMD should have been comparing their sharpening to Nvidia's sharpening, not DLSS. But of course, AMD need to pull some PR stunts in order to trick people in to thinking they have something like DLSS.

 

[TheRealDeal]

I'm discussing Navi technology ion the Navi tread, yes, oh the shock.


I forgot that no one on the OCUK graphics forum actually likes to discuss technology. Everything is about points scoring and marketing your preferred IHV with absolutely no basis in reality.
Childish squibs like "damage control" when you have no intelligent response.

To be fair some of us are more interested in what we gain than how it actually works.

But it has nothing to do with DLSS. The end result is very different.

AMD should have been comparing their sharpening to Nvidia's sharpening, not DLSS. But of course, AMD need to pull some PR stunts in order to trick people in to thinking they have something like DLSS.

While you might have a point, what AMD done was show that DLSS might be the inferior way to get the results. Without knowing the ins and outs of there method then it's pointless to keep assuming it's what has been around for a while. Its sharpening but is there anything else to what they are doing.

 

[shankly1985]

But it is not the same end result. that is the point.

And if you liek what AMd has done you can already do the same with Pascal and Turing cards, just go in to the drivers and enable the sharpening. Job done.

So the AMD demo on the shop floor was all a complete lie?

DP you are amazing never change please.

 

[Martini1991]

AMD couldn't release a flagship performance part, so instead we've got a mid range product with "Render not native resolution and use our RIS and pretend you're gaming in 4K".

RIS is a post processing technique. If we were to apply a catch all term to it

 

[CuriousTomCat]

I'm sure AMD could release an unstable GPU with space invaders that beats the 2080 Ti. Instead AMD choose to compete with Nvidia's "stable" flagship which is the 2070