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** The AMD Navi Thread **

Discussion in 'Graphics Cards' started by subbytna, Aug 20, 2017.

  1. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 31,254

    I don't think AMD want to go on selling Radeon Instinct MI50 as a gaming card in the form of Vega VII, an AMD employee said those things cost $700 to make and with 16GB of HBM2 i can well believe it, i think AMD may be loosing money on everyone they sell, they certainly aren't making anything.

    They are a reaction to RTX, Navi was delayed and AMD had to come up with something, what they had was those MI50's.

    Edit, i think they are probably selling them at cost.
     
  2. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 31,254

    On the subject of Ray Tracing.

    Back in the day people used to say you could only run Ridged / Soft Body Physics with CUDA cores, IE nVidia GPU's.
    Wrong, there are several Phisycs API's that run on DX10/11 alone totally GPU agnostic, including Bullet which is what Cryengine has been using since about 2006.



    People used to say you needed specialist hardware to run Adaptive Sync technology.
    Wrong, AMD did it with Software alone and nVidis are now using the same technology, i have a £200 Free Sync screen and G-Sync works flawlessly on it, i turned it on as soon as it was out and forgot about it....

    Now people are saying you need RT cores to run Ray Tracing.
    Wrong, AMD in fact have been doing it for years, Dirt Showdown and Nexuiz run it, AMD helped Crytek put it into Cryengine for Crysis 3, not as advanced back then as they are now in nVidia titles but Cryengine 5 these days is pretty much indistinguishable.

    This is not new tech at this level for Cryengine its been like this for about a year.



    Seeing a pattern here?

    AMD will do some more work on DX12 / Vulkan level Ray Tracing to refine it and then put it out there completely vendor agnostic, as they always do.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  3. LePhuronn

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 26, 2010

    Posts: 4,013

    Location: Stoke-on-Trent

    Oh I entirely agree. Radeon VII was a PR stunt made possible purely by the culmination of Nvidia's **** ups, and the sooner a real, sustainable product can be made to replace it the better. Ive suggested before that the big deal AMD made of the 16GB VRAM set a tricky precedent, but Samsung 2GB modules on a 256bit bus would be a viable way of retaining 16GB at the top end (and would probably need 2x 8-pin PCIe connectors...oh wait :p )

    But I think there would still need to be some kind of financial viability involved for AMD to even consider releasing Radeon VII in the first place. It's entirely possible that there's a high failure rate in the 7nm Instinct packages so AMD have quite a lot of Radeon VII-quality units to hand, and selling them on as a gaming card recoups some of the money, rather than just trashing everything. But what I don't think is happening is AMD are purposefully diverting MI50-quality packages away to feed the gaming card, that makes zero financial sense.

    It'd tickle me if the 50th Anniversary Radeon VII is actually a fully-working MI60 GPU that then failed Instinct QA after the HBM was bolted on :p
     
  4. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 31,254

    Salvaged parts ^^^^ yeah probably.

    Anyway, some of my own Ridged / Soft Body Physics work back in 2016, just for fun and testing. GTX 970 + 4690K, its not PhysX, its Bullet.



     
  5. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 31,254

    BTW, see these reflections in the water?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. shankly1985

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 25, 2011

    Posts: 19,037

    Location: The KOP

    @humbug
    The shadows and reflections are screen spaced not ray traced.
    But I agree with what else you have said.
     
  7. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 31,254

    Screen Spaced refections are Ray Traced.
     
  8. nashathedog

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Sep 12, 2013

    Posts: 8,588

    Location: Knowhere

    @humbug

    They're not they're a business but if you want to set yourself up for disapointment go right ahead, Humbug does it to himself everytime AMD releases a gpu which is likely why he only uses GTX cards lately.
     
  9. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 31,254

    Come on Nasha Hotchips said they had leaks that Polaris would be 980TI level performance and yes i feel for it, hook line and sinker but that was years ago.
     
  10. LoadsaMoney

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jul 8, 2003

    Posts: 27,456

    Location: In a house

    Yeah, and everyone was ******* themselves when it came out, AMDs finally matched the 970 etc.... :D
     
  11. nashathedog

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Sep 12, 2013

    Posts: 8,588

    Location: Knowhere

    You could also say Polaris is faster today as I've seen a few recent results where the 590 matches or runs faster than the 980ti. :D
     
  12. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 31,254

    AMD fine Wine :D

    [​IMG]
     
  13. LoadsaMoney

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jul 8, 2003

    Posts: 27,456

    Location: In a house

    Its still got a bit to go, to be that £200 1070 :D
     
  14. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 31,254

    The 1070 was a bit pricey early on but its turned into a solid card, its still does well at 1440P.
     
  15. shankly1985

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 25, 2011

    Posts: 19,037

    Location: The KOP

    They not, screen spaced is only shown what is on your screen, if you turn the camera angle they will disappear like screen spaced shadows do.

    Edit
    This is the issue with any screen space reflection or shadows! This is what ray tracing is aiming to fix otherwise we wouldn't need ray traced shadows etc The quality of the reflection while in screen is very good its drawback is what is shown in this video.



     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  16. humbug

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 17, 2012

    Posts: 31,254

    That's optimization, like culling, you want the entire world traced all the time, only what you can see.

    Reflection work by firing Rays (into your screen space) to calculate where the Shadows, Lighting and Reflections are supposed to overlay the pixels, once it has those calculations it pulls the required imagery to overlay from the G Buffer. think of it like laser scanning an object.

    A cheaper way of doing it is with Environment probes, but they don't traces live positioning so they don't refresh in real time as you move, they don't line up.

    Here, up to 28 seconds i'm using Environment Probes for reflections, as you can see its overlayed the pixels but nothing lines up, it doesn't move in a 3D environment, from there on i'm using traces reflections. its better illustrated toward the end of the video where i'm shooting balls over water.

     
  17. ChrisD.

    Capodecina

    Joined: Sep 20, 2006

    Posts: 23,201

    Looking forward to more details about this card being released.
     
  18. Bacon?

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 21, 2012

    Posts: 4,807

    Location: Bristol

    Honestly given nothing was shown at CES I don't think we'll see Navi until the end of the year
     
  19. LePhuronn

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 26, 2010

    Posts: 4,013

    Location: Stoke-on-Trent

    Based on what?

    Nobody knows why Navi wasn't shown at CES, and we only have speculation and rumour to suggest it was even scheduled to make an appearance. And given the window of opportunity Nvidia left open for Radeon VII, even if AMD had thought about Navi talk at CES, they would have nixed that idea when deciding to push out Radeon VII.
     
  20. HeX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jun 20, 2004

    Posts: 11,793

    Location: Huddersfield, UK

    I'm hoping for sooner than that! It's taking all my willpower to not buy a Vega 64.