** The AMD Navi Thread **

[Illuminist]

Radeon vii is end of line also, so does this mean the whole line up is replaced by navi from top to bottom?

 

[Phixsator]

The big discrepancies which also show up in his table are, imo, from card variance & stock settings fumbles.

I get 20% performance difference on my V64 from just slightly tweaking it and allowing +50% PL.

If you look at Vega performance from reviews and whatnot, it's all over the place. While for Nvidia you can see it's fine-tuned to the max, and can't expect much tuning to the cards either way (high floor/low ceiling for OC performance & tier competition).

Exactly the problem i have with all the reviews out there. Most of them are performed by idiots who simply don't take the time to dig deep. I have no issue with Vega getting some minus points for "out of box" performance metrics cause that a valid point to consider as not every consumer will be tinkering. That said, as a reviewer, you should dig deep to get an understanding of why things are working the way they are and if you can do something to boost a performance metric. So few are doing it.

Not so long ago i had a guy over from school an he played a bit on my PC and was amazed by the fluidity. The same guy had a day earlier been saying that AMD and ATI (yes ATI) sucks. He had a hard time believing that all that was in my machine was a "measly" ryzen 2600 and "a poor mans graphics card" aka vega 64.

 

[thenewoc]

Radeon VII + 10% = Navi 20 64 CU @ $500, whether this beats 2080ti or not, the bang for buck still seems decent. Even at the lower model levels you could have Vega 56 performance for $200.

 

[HeX]

Videos like that make it hard to decide what to do. Vega 64 now for £350, or wait another 3+ montha for Navi and hope the rumours are false...

 

[humbug]

Jim's argument is about power consumption, in that its high for 7nm.

RTX 2080 performance, maybe a little higher at 250 Watts, about the same as Vega VII but a faster card.

Again AMD are not competing at the very highest end and the power consumption, at least for 7nm is high.

Personally i don't think that maters so much, 250 watts is only about 20 watts more than the RTX 2080 and if its the same or slightly faster i think that's fine, then it just depends on price, Jim thinks (RX 3090XT) $500, for the RTX 2080 equivalent, that's expensive but $250 less than the RTX 2080.
RX 3080XT (RTX 2070 equivalent) for $330, that's the sweetspot, a good price for a good card.

 

[nashathedog]

Vega is end of line. Navi is meant to replace Vega and the 500 series

I might be wrong but I don't think Navi was ever confirmed as a Vega replacement, It's just a Polaris replacement in the way Polaris was not a Fiji replacement, for that we had to wait for Vega & to replace Vega now we are waiting for what comes after Navi, at least that's how I thought it was. Yes there's been plenty of speculation but there always is & the majority of it sounds plausible because it's guesswork anyone with a rudementary knowledge of the topic could come up with.

 

[humbug]

I might be wrong but I don't think Navi was ever confirmed as a Vega replacement, It's just a Polaris replacement in the way Polaris was not a Fiji replacement, for that we had to wait for Vega & to replace Vega now we are waiting for what comes after Navi, at least that's how I thought it was.

In one of the investors interviews Lisa made it clear that Navi will be competing with nVidia at the high end.

 

[Murphy]

She also said it would come in under Vega 7 prices'

 

[humbug]

She also said it would come in under Vega 7 prices'

Great, as it should be, that thing is overpriced.

 

[Murphy]

I was trying to imply that competing with nVidia at the high end while also being cheaper than VII maybe expecting too much.

I'd love it to be true but GCN is a rather heavy, expensive, architecture when compared to Nvidia's designs.

 

[doody]

mabe jim got it wrong/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_OGxJUOM-0

 

[humbug]

mabe jim got it wrong/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_OGxJUOM-0

Jim went into exactly this in his video, this one looks almost like a repeat of it, he even states he got his information from AdoredTV.

watch the video.

 

[nashathedog]

In one of the investors interviews Lisa made it clear that Navi will be competing with nVidia at the high end.

Really? Where can I find it?

I found this: https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd-navi-high-end-more-powerful-gpu-than-expected & this from it https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd-nvidia-depressed-graphics-card-market

but it's speculation on what she means, unless you're referring to newer quotes where she specifically mentions Navi? The quote below is from before the Radeon VII was announced so that could have been speaking of that as the VII is a high end competitor.

We will be very competitive overall and that includes the high-end of the GPU market,” says Dr. Su. “Obviously, there are some new products out there from our competition. We will have our set of new products as well and we’ll be right there in the mix.

 

[LePhuronn]

I might be wrong but I don't think Navi was ever confirmed as a Vega replacement, It's just a Polaris replacement in the way Polaris was not a Fiji replacement, for that we had to wait for Vega & to replace Vega now we are waiting for what comes after Navi, at least that's how I thought it was. Yes there's been plenty of speculation but there always is & the majority of it sounds plausible because it's guesswork anyone with a rudementary knowledge of the topic could come up with.

Navi was never confirmed as a Polaris replacement either. In fact, there is literally no actual confirmed information about Navi. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Everything has come from rumours and speculation, which is why our playful discussions have become so convoluted and contradictory.

Based on that rumours and speculation though, you cannot say that Navi is a Polaris replacement when leaked Navi SKUs also match or better Vega performance too. Navi looks to be a total reset of the low and midrange market segment, replacing both existing Polaris and Vega products with a new range based off the same architecture.

Navi is a Polaris replacement in semantics only, in that if Polaris represents AMD's low-to-midrange product (with RX Vega being high tier and Radeon VII as top tier), then yes Navi is replacing Polaris as the midrange product. But in terms of performance tiers, Navi is replacing Vega as well.

 

[flea.rider]

it could be in the vid that amd want to push it to high end .and this is what the engineers where finding hard ..which yeah you can see it .. pushing a mid range part way further than it should ..
I'm thinking navi will be fine up to v56 speeds after that it will be a power hungry little thing

 

[humbug]

it could be in the vid that amd want to push it to high end .and this is what the engineers where finding hard ..which yeah you can see it .. pushing a mid range part way further than it should ..
I'm thinking navi will be fine up to v56 speeds after that it will be a power hungry little thing

I think that's a little hyperbolic, Polaris is 200 Watts, Vega 56 about 250, if they are looking at Vega 56 performance or less at Polaris to Vega 56 power consumption then maybe they should just stick to 14nm and forget about Navi completely.

I don't think its going to be quite that dreadful, Vega VII which is Vega at 7nm + an extra IMC and some more silicon dedicated to small bit computation is about the same power consumption as Vega 56 while being 30% faster in game.

You may of course be right, but if you are Navi should never see the light of day because it would be worse than Vega, just use Vega.

 

[Grim5]

I think that's a little hyperbolic, Polaris is 200 Watts, Vega 56 about 250, if they are looking at Vega 56 performance or less at Polaris to Vega 56 power consumption then maybe they should just stick to 14nm and forget about Navi completely.

I don't think its going to be quite that dreadful, Vega VII which is Vega at 7nm + an extra IMC and some more silicon dedicated to small bit computation is about the same power consumption as Vega 56 while being 30% faster in game.

You may of course be right, but if you are Navi should never see the light of day because it would be worse than Vega, just use Vega.

Don't forget about price

It doesn't matter if Navi can only match vega in performance and power consumption - Navi will no doubt be far cheaper than Vega

 

[Grim5]

In the video he talks about Navi 20 (high end) too, one model is approximately equal to a Radeon VII and the top model is approximately 10% faster and costs $500. We don't know if these Navi 20 cards are coming out this year or next although previous rumours said 2020.

I too was under the impression Navi 20 was for either end of 2019 or Q1 2020 and Navi 10 was for Q2 2019

Anyone who owns a Radeon 7, RTX 2080 or RTX2080ti I believe is safe, you shouldn’t need to worry about something faster coming out till 2020

 

[humbug]

Don't forget about price

It doesn't matter if Navi can only match vega in performance and power consumption - Navi will no doubt be far cheaper than Vega

Vega 56 is £250, you think it will be cheaper than that?

 

[ltron]

I too was under the impression Navi 20 was for either end of 2019 or Q1 2020 and Navi 10 was for Q2 2019

Anyone who owns a Radeon 7, RTX 2080 or RTX2080ti I believe is safe, you shouldn’t need to worry about something faster coming out till 2020

I don't own a 2080 TI anymore, it was faulty so I refunded it and I'm back using my GTX 1080. I was hoping AMD would release something reasonable so I could consider switching.