** The AMD Navi Thread **

[Davedree]

Am I the only one who doesnt bother any more about all this?
My (reference) Vega 64 is there, water-cooled, tuned and nothing has changed a year now. Its performance even got better with the drivers over the year. Freesync on the 2730Z does its job and everything is fine.
The only thing looking forward is the new Ryzen 3000 cpus as I need more grunt cpu power these days.

Yeah same for me I gave up when I was waiting for the Fiji-Nano to release, I have an Itx 4770k, Lc64 which I run at 1700/1200 on a 75hz 1440p freesync monitor, it does struggle a bit in Kingdom Come and the latest Assasin Creeds.
However the VII is just not a good enough jump for me, so i'll sit on what I have until I see something reasonably priced whether it be Amd Nvidia or Intel.

 

[LoadsaMoney]

Am I the only one who doesnt bother any more about all this?

Nope

 

[Troezar]

Yeah same for me I gave up when I was waiting for the Fiji-Nano to release, I have an Itx 4770k, Lc64 which I run at 1700/1200 on a 75hz 1440p freesync monitor, it does struggle a bit in Kingdom Come and the latest Assasin Creeds.
However the VII is just not a good enough jump for me, so i'll sit on what I have until I see something reasonably priced whether it be Amd Nvidia or Intel.

So what's the consensus on minimum performance for high refresh rate 1440p, RTX 2080 upwards?

I'm waiting for a decent 144Hz Freesync, HDR 1000 monitor that I dont have to sell a body part for! Needless to say I'm not expecting to be buying one just yet

 

[pmc25]

The current rumours being reported as fact that Navi's clocks are way lower than Vega 20, and power draw is a disaster make absolutely no sense and are almost certainly false.

Vega 20 was an optical shrink of Vega 10 which never took TSMC 7nm into consideration in its design. Navi was always for 7nm, from the get go. Aside from the advantage of designing for this specific node, if Vega is an evolution of Fury and Navi is an evolution of Polaris (though bigger one), then it would also tend to suggest that clocks would reflect the fact that Polaris was always further down its voltage and frequency curve than Vega was (it was far higher than ideal on Vega10), so there should be more room to play with.

Further, if it was a dud or there were inherent issues with it, it would have been known long before now, and Sony (and likely MS) would have presumably opted for 'Next Gen' which has already been in the design phase for several years now.

Some are claiming that it could still be true given all of the above, because it was designed for GF 7nm EUV (Samsung 7nm EUV basically), and since that got canned and it was designed for EUV, AMD were screwed and had to totally redesign it. That makes zero sense though. AMD have known for longer than we have that GF 7nm was a bust. If it was designed specifically around EUV, then they simply would have moved to Samsung 7nm EUV which is ready now, or waited a bit longer and gone with TSMC 7nm+ (EUV). But they aren't, at least not with first wave of product, even if PS5 and XBNext GPUs will almost certainly be on EUV.

TLDR, there is a very high probability that this is total FUD.

 

[LePhuronn]

^^^

It would be interesting to know at what point GloFo decided to bin off 7nm and as a result let AMD know. From what I can remember, GloFo binning 7nm was a financial one, rather than technical, so it's conceivable AMD didn't have as much forewarning as you'd think - weren't GloFo still saying Q4 2018 to tape out 7nm product right up until August when they announced the canning? I don't recall anybody saying Navi was designed for EUV, but it is a commonly-held belief it was a 7nm-centric design, and there could be some issues porting a GloFo 7nm design over to TSMC 7nm production and trigger delays.

Perhaps the hype train optimist in me is thinking these latest rumours are rubbish because (as you've said) it Navi was this broken then somebody would've said something long before now. Perhaps the paranoid cynic in me is thinking this latest fud is misinformation to discredit AMD and Navi before it even launches because it really will punch Nvidia in the sub 2080 Ti nutsack in price and performance. This can't be AMD sandbagging though and spinning some misdirection because this sort of rumour really does cast AMD in a negative light. It's arguably "bad enough" that Navi is GCN again, it's arguably "bad enough" that the performance targets were set by 3 years ago, but to then spin stories about how it's hot, broken and everybody's sick of it yet again just makes AMD look incompetent.

If Navi really is getting a teaser at Computex then next month can't come soon enough.

 

[humbug]

^^^

It would be interesting to know at what point GloFo decided to bin off 7nm and as a result let AMD know. From what I can remember, GloFo binning 7nm was a financial one, rather than technical, so it's conceivable AMD didn't have as much forewarning as you'd think - weren't GloFo still saying Q4 2018 to tape out 7nm product right up until August when they announced the canning? I don't recall anybody saying Navi was designed for EUV, but it is a commonly-held belief it was a 7nm-centric design, and there could be some issues porting a GloFo 7nm design over to TSMC 7nm production and trigger delays.

Perhaps the hype train optimist in me is thinking these latest rumours are rubbish because (as you've said) it Navi was this broken then somebody would've said something long before now. Perhaps the paranoid cynic in me is thinking this latest fud is misinformation to discredit AMD and Navi before it even launches because it really will punch Nvidia in the sub 2080 Ti nutsack in price and performance. This can't be AMD sandbagging though and spinning some misdirection because this sort of rumour really does cast AMD in a negative light. It's arguably "bad enough" that Navi is GCN again, it's arguably "bad enough" that the performance targets were set by 3 years ago, but to then spin stories about how it's hot, broken and everybody's sick of it yet again just makes AMD look incompetent.

If Navi really is getting a teaser at Computex then next month can't come soon enough.

This month, 27'th

In an official press release, the Taiwan External Trade Development Council has confirmed that AMD’s CEO, Dr. Lisa Su, will be presenting the Computex 2019 opening keynote on 27th May, 19. During the keynote, AMD’s President and CEO will be presenting a range of new technologies that will utilize the brand new 7nm process node.

https://wccftech.com/amd-ceo-computex-2019-keynote-ryzen-3000-cpu-and-radeon-rx-navi-gpu/

 

[Jerry64]

Bring on the navy erm I mean Navi it's not long to wait no for more info at Computex

 

[humbug]

#3Weeks

 

[Rroff]

^^^

It would be interesting to know at what point GloFo decided to bin off 7nm and as a result let AMD know. From what I can remember, GloFo binning 7nm was a financial one, rather than technical, so it's conceivable AMD didn't have as much forewarning as you'd think - weren't GloFo still saying Q4 2018 to tape out 7nm product right up until August when they announced the canning? I don't recall anybody saying Navi was designed for EUV, but it is a commonly-held belief it was a 7nm-centric design, and there could be some issues porting a GloFo 7nm design over to TSMC 7nm production and trigger delays.

Perhaps the hype train optimist in me is thinking these latest rumours are rubbish because (as you've said) it Navi was this broken then somebody would've said something long before now. Perhaps the paranoid cynic in me is thinking this latest fud is misinformation to discredit AMD and Navi before it even launches because it really will punch Nvidia in the sub 2080 Ti nutsack in price and performance. This can't be AMD sandbagging though and spinning some misdirection because this sort of rumour really does cast AMD in a negative light. It's arguably "bad enough" that Navi is GCN again, it's arguably "bad enough" that the performance targets were set by 3 years ago, but to then spin stories about how it's hot, broken and everybody's sick of it yet again just makes AMD look incompetent.

If Navi really is getting a teaser at Computex then next month can't come soon enough.

From what I understand GF had been working with IBM and Samsung in an alliance to develop 7 and 5nm technologies but I think it wasn't making sense for them basically adopting the same process as Samsung but one step behind in the pecking order so they couldn't compete in any way with Samsung and left them dependant on IBM/Samsung for being competitive with TSMC so their natural path from there was to specialise rather than compete in a crowded marketplace.

 

[bru]

You have to love the way this forum will turn on people the moment they say a bad word about AMD. Sorry Jim from AdoredTV, your suddenly not flavour of the month anymore.

As for what Navi will actually bring to the table, well NVIDIA are supposedly preparing a 2070ti along with price drops (about bleeding time too), so that tells you where they expect it to to come in.

As humbug says only a few weeks and we will know one way or the other, hopefully.

 

[Phixsator]

I like AdoredTVs videos, I find them very interesting but i've always disagreed with him when it comes to Vega. Vega is certainly not the saver of humanity but having owned a 1080ti for reference i find vega 64 to be bloody awesome with only one exception the power draw but I can live with that. Jim seems to for whatever reason to be massively disappointed by Vega and he, at times, likes to carry that torch a bit higher than necessary imho. But that is the beauty of it in the end, you can disagree about something with someone and still respect them. You don't have to pick a side and defend it no matter what, the world is simply not that black and white.

 

[JediFragger]

Vega is certainly not the saver of humanity but having owned a 1080ti for reference i find vega 64 to be bloody awesome

Have to agree, can't beat the current V56 Pulse for value for money imo (and I've had a 2080Ti!). Lovely little card

 

[Grim5]

I don't mean a crossfire set up but one that works in a similar way to how Ryzen does.

That would be insane, because you'd have near 100% scaling as it would be seen as a single chip by the system.

I imagine if it was easy to do someone would have done it already though

Crossfire/SLi/NVLink is all really bad and was a fad from the get go

It needs to be seen as a single GPU by the OS and GPU drivers

 

[Davedree]

So what's the consensus on minimum performance for high refresh rate 1440p, RTX 2080 upwards?

I'm waiting for a decent 144Hz Freesync, HDR 1000 monitor that I dont have to sell a body part for! Needless to say I'm not expecting to be buying one just yet

Depending on your current screen and gpu, i'd say hold off if you can until the monitors start to show worthwhile offerings and decent prices. Hdr10 in my opinion is just marketing demotech and it's just not good enough on pc monitors or widely used in tvs to even worry about at the moment. Freesync 2 is another + factor in purchasing as it has a few revisions over freesync, but mostly it is a validation brand label to differeniate over the lesser quality freesync panels.

For a gpu @1440p 75-100hz, then a VII/2080 will be fine, but 125hz+ you'll be looking at 2080ti and that's just a joke of a price.

 

[FoxEye]

I'm pretty sure we've known Navi was to be the next Polaris since Raj Koduri told us as much but I can't find where he said this, I found this though,

https://www.pcgamesn.com/amd/navi-gpu-release-date-performance


Admittedly it's a bit thin on the ground for me to claim it confirms anything so I'll keep looking for the Koduri quote. If I find it I'll post it but if I get bored of looking I won't.

Really? The best they can do for the mid-range market is not quite as good as a 1070?

If that's the case then what in the nine hells have they been doing at AMD? Smoking crack all day long if that's the best they can do.

That would only be a ~30% improvement on the 580 480 390 290. Really not good enough.

 

[ANDREW GREEN]

 

[KillBoY_UK]

Really? The best they can do for the mid-range market is not quite as good as a 1070?

If that's the case then what in the nine hells have they been doing at AMD? Smoking crack all day long if that's the best they can do.

That would only be a ~30% improvement on the 580 480 390 290. Really not good enough.

Well the performance uplift from the old 380x to RX480 was in the 30-40% range which seems to be average for a die shrink + architecture improvement. RX 580 +30% on something like BFV@1440p would put it smack with the 1070ti/1660ti +40% would put it with the 2060 and V56, buut i would'nt be surprised if there was a 590 like card where efficiency is thrown out the window completely.

 

[nashathedog]

That would be insane, because you'd have near 100% scaling as it would be seen as a single chip by the system.

I imagine if it was easy to do someone would have done it already though

Crossfire/SLi/NVLink is all really bad and was a fad from the get go

It needs to be seen as a single GPU by the OS and GPU drivers

It definitely won't be easy & maybe it's only now becoming possible thanks to what AMD have learned with Ryzen. If they do get it to work they'll be able to overturn Nvidia dominance in the gaming market so fingers crossed it's possible.

Really? The best they can do for the mid-range market is not quite as good as a 1070?

If that's the case then what in the nine hells have they been doing at AMD? Smoking crack all day long if that's the best they can do.

That would only be a ~30% improvement on the 580 480 390 290. Really not good enough.

I agree, only managing 1070 performance would suck, I've been saying all along that I think first gen Navi (2019) will offer upto Vega 64/GTX1080 performance, I used that quote more for it stating that AMD had Navi positioned under the VII in it's stack & that first gen Navi (2019) was not looking to compete with the high end Turing cards, It was also saying that Navi was not likely to beat the 14nm Vega's, It may match them but it won't outpace them which I also think's likely.

 

[ANDREW GREEN]

Really? The best they can do for the mid-range market is not quite as good as a 1070?

If that's the case then what in the nine hells have they been doing at AMD? Smoking crack all day long if that's the best they can do.

That would only be a ~30% improvement on the 580 480 390 290. Really not good enough.

It's speculating and it doesn't really state that. It's essentially saying 'no one knows and AMDs primary objective will be to compete with the 1660-1660ti'. It neglects to state AMD will also need to compete with the 2060 if it want to sell any GPU for £300 or over and it'll need to compete with 2070 to compete above the £300 segment. Otherwise AMD have no GPUs of note from £300-£600, which makes little sense

 

[Besty]

Am I the only one who doesnt bother any more about all this?
My (reference) Vega 64 is there, water-cooled, tuned and nothing has changed a year now. Its performance even got better with the drivers over the year. Freesync on the 2730Z does its job and everything is fine.
The only thing looking forward is the new Ryzen 3000 cpus as I need more grunt cpu power these days.

we need a total reset in this market re: price/performance and much of the market has moved onto laptops. it is this market which is the new battleground and will grow quicker than desktops.

£1200 gaming GPUs for desktops? good luck with that Nvidia.

AMD do not have a foothold in laptop market and we really need to see them pump out fast, efficient and cost effective products.

This year is one of transition, this time next year will be a great time to hunt out an upgrade.