*** The AMD RDNA 4 Rumour Mill ***

[ICDP]

Everyone has a different opinion on perceived value. What I am doing is looking at respective total uplift compared to previous performance tiers and pricing.

Current leaks put the 9070 XT at roughly 20% - 25% faster in raster and 50% - 60% faster in extreme RT over a 7900 GRE. So that was enough for me to revise my assessment that the 9070 XT was a 7800 XT replacement.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I agree with this in theory, but I think this is where I differ on a subjective level - I've accepted that I'm going to have to pay more for less whichever card I go for, if i want to upgrade. It just depends on the size of the appendage and amount of lube required

I am already spending more than I normally would. If we keep giving in more and more,soon a 60 series card(in name) will be £500+ and an entry level card verging on £400 in a generation or two. At this point FOMO has it's limits.

It's also why we see so much modern inflation - consumers also need to protect themselves too. Pay over the odds for anything and companies get the message they are not charging enough.Hence,why we have £100 AAA games with microtransactions.

But as much as really want an RX9070,I can wait for some special offer if the launch price is very high.

You seem to be working on hypotheticals that mean nothing to MSRP pricing. What if the 5070 has very limited supply and retailers scalp it to £650, but the 9070 is £500 and faster with more VRAM? Another hypothetical that means nothing.

The RT uplift on the 5090 shows similar scaling to the 4090. So RT has not been improved in Blackwell. This means the 9070/XT will be closer in RT to Nvidia than AMD have ever been.

I only care about price/performance compared to what is currently available not relative performance to an overpriced competitor. I don't look at overpriced newest Samsung phones relative to the newest Apple overpriced phones - I look at the whole market too including the previous generation. If I conclude both are overpriced I won't buy.

If it is £499.99 for an RX9070 non-XT with almost RX7900XT level performance I would buy one. It can be a basic smaller card too - I don't need bling or oversized coolers.

The problem is if this is like Vega 56 and once stock runs out on Day 1,it get's a huge price bump for new stock.

Nvidia RT performance is also as much about how Nvidia gets devs optimises for it's own hardware. AMD RDNA2/RDNA3 had weaknesses in doing RT reflections. So Nvidia pushed that in sponsored games. AMD needs to try and get around this software lock.

Also I don't play well with artificial scarcity pricing. This is a trick which has been done for a century. De Beers has done this with Diamond supply and why Diamonds cost so much!

During the Pandemic I paid RRP or below RRP for my dGPUs,CPUs and everything.

I predict £550 but with £79 worth of bundled games.

Probably more like £39 if you get it from a discount site.

Plus probably limited edition Fortnite skins!

 

[ICDP]

Please note I am comparing to AMD own competing GPUs, not Nvidia.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Please note I am comparing to AMD own competing GPUs, not Nvidia.

But the issue is AMD has been pricing relative to Nvidia the last few generations. Nvidia and AMD cottoned on that creating "scarcity" means gamers will pay more for products. Even Sony released that - the PS5 PRO is more of the same.It's simple market manipulation to create the impression of demand.

Don't believe me? The Ryzen 7 9800X3D is now selling for above its RRP and the Ryzen 7 7800X3D has gone back to its launch price.

 

[Steve Bruce]

I predict £550 but with £79 worth of bundled games.

for the 9070XT? If the performance outdoes the 5070 in Raster and matches RT and with 4gb extra ram, I think it's a fair price. Not mind blowing, but a fair price, I personally think if they are looking to squeeze market share they should try and keep it at less than 500 and the none xt 429. But I don't know how much each card costs to manufacture, so it might not be feasible.

 

[ICDP]

@CAT-THE-FIFTH I know, I agree they do this and it makes it difficult to ascertain true value. It’s why both AMD and Nvidia have been able to raise prices for their GPus in stealthy (and not so stealthy) ways.

Sometimes they get away with it and sometimes they don’t.

Take the 7900 GRE for example. It launched at £550 - £600, which was the old 6800 prices. But it was on average about 33% faster in raster and about 45% in RT. So all in all it gave a decent to good improvement in price/perf over the 6800. It ended up faster than the 6800 XT and the 6900 XT. So in this case the 7900 GRE could be considered as a lower tier GPU beating the previous gen AMD top tiers. This is what we normally expect on new gen GPUs, same price and noticeable performance improvements.

Yet if we do the same comparison on the 7900 XT at £900, it just looks terrible and was a regression on price/perf.

So I am hoping AMD do more of a 7800 XT and 7900 GRE style launch rather than the diabolical 7900 XT launch.

 

[Armageus]

for the 9070XT? If the performance outdoes the 5070 in Raster and matches RT and with 4gb extra ram, I think it's a fair price. Not mind blowing, but a fair price, I personally think if they are looking to squeeze market share they should try and keep it at less than 500 and the none xt 429. But I don't know how much each card costs to manufacture, so it might not be feasible.

It would be, but then you end up with the AIB cards costs £579, £599, and before you know it you're at £650-£700 which is far less attractive.

£500 is where it needs to be to be a "mainstream" card and nail some market share.

I predominately buy budget cards both for myself and my kids - but when "budget" cards are now £250-£300 and only last a year or two before being horribly underpowered, then I'd happily stretch to £500 for a card with decent performance and a sensible amount of VRAM.

 

[Phixsator]

I predict £550 but with £79 worth of bundled games.

I'll bit if that is what ends up happening. MBA would be fine with me.

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

I really don't know what to do this release.
Originally I was thinking Nvidia, then the AMD cards started to look interesting, then the whole AMD wait to maximize pricing while being better value thing happened and annoyed me so I went back to Nvidia, then the 5090 reviews came out and removed all hope of the rest of the 5000 stack being any good. So now I don't know where I'm at.

This is why AMD's delay is annoying as we don't know prices or performance for another couple of months.
If these cards are mid tier, what are we considering mid-tier? Are we saying 4070/4070Ti is mid-tier and 4080 is high-end? The 7900XT sorta sits between them so is it mid-tier or high-end? Is the 9070XT gonna be hitting 7900XT levels?

I'm not really interested in fake-frames or fake-resolutions or RT at this point. I just want want to know where we're at so I can start waiting for stock at a reasonable price (so probably just as the 6000 and 10000 series are announced).

 

[aminegriffy]

We are getting more games with built in RT and the 7000 series seem to be performing well. For example, Indiana Jones the 7800XT gets 50fps at native 4k with no upsaclling or anything and that game has built in RT , but for some reason when you turn on RT in Alan Wake 2 or Black Myth the 7800XT falls below even the 4060ti lol. I'm wondering why there is such a disparancy ?

 

[ICDP]

We are getting more games with built in RT and the 7000 series seem to be performing well. For example, Indiana Jones the 7800XT gets 50fps at native 4k with no upsaclling or anything and that game has built in RT , but for some reason when you turn on RT in Alan Wake 2 or Black Myth the 7800XT falls below even the 4060ti lol. I'm wondering why there is such a disparancy ?

Because Nvidia sponsored games use significantly higher levels of RT that impact AMD more. This is why AMD have given RDNA 4 significant RT uplifts. If leaks are true they are more in line with even the RTX 5000 series RT. So you will see less of an impact in those kinds of games on RDNA4.

 

[Shogun_Krayt]

We are getting more games with built in RT and the 7000 series seem to be performing well. For example, Indiana Jones the 7800XT gets 50fps at native 4k with no upsaclling or anything and that game has built in RT , but for some reason when you turn on RT in Alan Wake 2 or Black Myth the 7800XT falls below even the 4060ti lol. I'm wondering why there is such a disparancy ?

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/36j2qh/nvidia_abuse_excessive_tessellation_for_years/

Nvidia-biased optimization wouldn't be a new thing, remember the Crysis 2 tesselation shenanigans.

 

[Armageus]

If these cards are mid tier, what are we considering mid-tier? Are we saying 4070/4070Ti is mid-tier and 4080 is high-end? The 7900XT sorta sits between them so is it mid-tier or high-end? Is the 9070XT gonna be hitting 7900XT levels?

IMO

4090 - Enthusiast Tier
4080 - High End
4070 - Mid Range
4060 - Mainstream
<4060 - Budget

However, we've got into a situation where cards below 4060 don't really exist, so 4060 is now Budget, and 4070 is now considered mainstream for decent performance

 

[michty_me]

I believe the new Doom game has built in RT requirements also.

 

[ICDP]

IMO

4090 - Enthusiast Tier
4080 - High End
4070 - Mid Range
4060 - Mainstream
<4060 - Budget

However, we've got into a situation where cards below 4060 don't really exist, so 4060 is now Budget, and 4070 is now considered mainstream for decent performance

I would agree and to expand on the AMD side

7900 XTX - High End
7900 XT - lower high end
7900 GRE - Upper Mid Range
7700 XT and 7800 XT - Mid range
7600 XT - Mainstream

 

[humbug]

Yeah I think that's where the nuance lies in this gen for AMD. RT performance really let the 7000 series down, so balancing that side of things out would make this gen a more rounded option. It's probably another factor in why they decided to only target mid-range as well.

Depends on which one, the 7800 XT isn't bad, at worst its about equal to a 4060 Ti, the 16GB version of which was the same price and lets face it if you are using RT its the one you need, overall its 10% ahead of the 3070 Ti, the 4070 is 15% ahead.

Doom Eternal Ultra / Ultra RT 4K 100Hz

Metro Exodus 1440P all highest settings.

For most RT games its actually very usable, the problem is higher end RX 7000 series GPU's aren't hugely faster with RT and that for the price difference becomes a problem. I think this one at least for where it is in the range is absolutely fine.

 

[aminegriffy]

The 9070 non XT is not gonna be on the level of a 7900xt. It will between a 7800XT/7900Gre with better RT performance. There is a reason why AMD stopped the production of the 7900Gre. In fact, we didn't even see the 7900Gre go on sale at all last time.

 

[Gerard]

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/36j2qh/nvidia_abuse_excessive_tessellation_for_years/

Nvidia-biased optimization wouldn't be a new thing, remember the Crysis 2 tesselation shenanigans.

And nomatter how obvious it was, people on here at the time were still arguing that there was nothing shady going on. Yes, that flat piece of wood needs several million polygons thrown at it to make it look no different, as does that concrete bollard.

 

[Game]

IMO

4090 - Enthusiast Tier
4080 - High End
4070 - Mid Range
4060 - Mainstream
<4060 - Budget

However, we've got into a situation where cards below 4060 don't really exist, so 4060 is now Budget, and 4070 is now considered mainstream for decent performance

Historically the Enthusiast Tier started at the 70 series

 

[McPhee]

The 9070 non XT is not gonna be on the level of a 7900xt. It will between a 7800XT/7900Gre with better RT performance. There is a reason why AMD stopped the production of the 7900Gre. In fact, we didn't even see the 7900Gre go on sale at all last time.

The leaked benchmarks from MLID put it at 96% of the performance of the 7900 XT in raster.