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Poll: ** The AMD VEGA Thread **

On or off the hype train?

  • (off) Train has derailed

    Votes: 207 39.2%

  • (on) Overcrowding, standing room only

    Votes: 100 18.9%

  • (never ever got on) Chinese escalator

    Votes: 221 41.9%
  • Total voters
    528
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Actually none of those things can be said with 100% accuracy.

delayed one year - No it wasn't. AMD never said Vega would be out in 2016. I believe that was pure speculation by the 'experts' on this forum. If it had been said that the Vega generation was one year behind Pascal then yes, but not delayed at least as far as AMD are concerned.

Inferior performance compared to High-End competition - We do not know this 100% yet. It is highly likely but not a certainty.

Inferior watt/performance - We don't know the true performance of RX Vega so cant say with 100% certainty that this is true either. likely but not 100%

Inferior Price/Performance - As above we don't know the real performance and we do not know with any certainty the prices either

Yes, AMD fans may buy it due to wanting to still get the benefit out of a freesync screen or just not wanting to buy an Nvidia card and those drivers will improve and that gap between the RX Vega and the 1080Ti will get smaller, but I dont think it will take too long. Within 6 months, shorter if devs actually use the features provided within the cards hardware (admittedly difficult/Lazy (Depending on your point of view) due to marketshare and obvious flexing of muscles by marketshare holder).
:D
 
D.P. said:
Double precision FP64 support requires dedicated hardware, this costs transistors which will increase die space and consume power. For gaming there is minimal use for Fp64 computation and thus gaming parts can have this stripped out. Nvidia reduced FP64 support in Maxwell just like AMD did with Fiji because they were stuck on the same old 28nm process and needed the extra transistor budget. With Pascal Nvidia moved to having a dedicated computer card with all the FP64 cores (GP100) while maintained a more optimal configuration for gaming. AMD haven't yet released a proper contender for HPC use, and even VEega 10 wont support fast FP64. At some point next year there shouldbe a Vega20 with 1:2 double precision.
Click to expand...

Interesting thx.. but why can't Fp64 be used for gaming
 
AllBodies said:
That was interesting to re-watch knowing what we know now.

However I came away with the following observations:
  • AMD had pulled money and focus away from discrete graphics, due to bad business decisions about the future, and Raja had to convince them to re-focus when he came back on
  • Vega is the culmination of him getting money and engineers back, and laying a foundation of important 'fundamentals' in the hardware/software
  • This implies Vega is a bit of a swiss-army-knife card, and a proof of concept of approaching many different workloads
  • So it's a bit of a jack of all trades, master of none, and has a lot of transistors used for things which won't benefit certain workloads (like gaming)
  • Its main focus appears to be deep learning and large-dataset workloads (like editing 8K video and real-time raytracing), since these are important new growth areas
  • So gaming, CAD, and other traditional professional work are secondary in the design
  • Not necessarily on purpose per se, but they had a transistor budget and Vega is all about 1. Showing they can tackle any/every workload type in some form 2. Plugging gaps in capability they didn't have before, and also adding things even Nvidia can't do, like the SSG technology. Therefore 'new' stuff got the main focus.
  • When discussing the "multi-generation" part, he was just referring to the community's "FineWine" term about how they improve their products a lot over time through drivers. And also we know there's a 1/2 rate FP64 HPC Vega card coming next year sometime too. So this didn't say anything about Navi either way, it could be an iteration of Vega or something totally new

The conclusion I come to is that Vega is more like a blueprint for the future. It completes a puzzle (and adds a couple of extra pieces) so that they can move forward from a strong start point. But it in of itself is not necessarily a great GPU for specific use-cases (other than the 2 mentioned they seem to have focused on a lot).

So I feel like it may turn out disappointing for gamers, but part of the plan is that now they've sorted their gaps they can hit the ground running for the 7nm generation and make big gains. They no longer need to add anything new and/or plug holes, just focus on improvements.


EDIT: Also bear in mind the Titan Xp/1080 Ti die is stripped out of all its compute, and doesn't have 2xFP16 etc. so continuing from all my above observations, it basically means Vega is a smaller die than the 1080 Ti. In that it's not 484mm2 of gaming-focused die, whereas the 1080 Ti is. So now I'm not surprised at its performance (though still disappointed at its perf/w).
Click to expand...

+1
 
AllBodies said:
So I feel like it may turn out disappointing for gamers, but part of the plan is that now they've sorted their gaps they can hit the ground running for the 7nm generation and make big gains. They no longer need to add anything new and/or plug holes, just focus on improvements.
Click to expand...

In that case I'm really glad I went green a few months ago :)

I'm hoping AMD really get moving with 7nm and beyond and give us options!!
 
maonayze said:
Actually none of those things can be said with 100% accuracy.

delayed one year - No it wasn't. AMD never said Vega would be out in 2016. I believe that was pure speculation by the 'experts' on this forum. If it had been said that the Vega generation was one year behind Pascal then yes, but not delayed at least as far as AMD are concerned.

Inferior performance compared to High-End competition - We do not know this 100% yet. It is highly likely but not a certainty.

Inferior watt/performance - We don't know the true performance of RX Vega so cant say with 100% certainty that this is true either. likely but not 100%

Inferior Price/Performance - As above we don't know the real performance and we do not know with any certainty the prices either

Yes, AMD fans may buy it due to wanting to still get the benefit out of a freesync screen or just not wanting to buy an Nvidia card and those drivers will improve and that gap between the RX Vega and the 1080Ti will get smaller, but I dont think it will take too long. Within 6 months, shorter if devs actually use the features provided within the cards hardware (admittedly difficult/Lazy (Depending on your point of view) due to marketshare and obvious flexing of muscles by marketshare holder).
:D
Click to expand...


Yes interesting point re game devs as AMD are in the consoles and i suspect maybe an all in one SOC of refined vega/ryzen may be in the next lot of consoles ..so you would expect devs to be on this sooner than later so could be looking good re time wise ...
 
Was meant to be h1 17. Useless stalling and lack of cards in the top end of performance ended my spree of amd from the 5770 to the 390. Shame I just got a freesync monitor too last year
 
We don't now for sure yet, but if Vega is disappointing, it's probably just laying ground work for what is to come next.

At this point with what we know I am 75% sure my next card is Green. I just hope if Vega isn't anything special that it brings about a price reduction for the 1000 series.
 
opethdisciple said:
We don't now for sure yet, but if Vega is disappointing, it's probably just laying ground work for what is to come next.

At this point with what we know I am 75% sure my next card is Green. I just hope if Vega isn't anything special that it brings about a price reduction for the 1000 series.
Click to expand...

I am sure this will happen which would be great .... there is a few custom 1080's now that can be had for £485 at some place's
 
subbytna said:
AMD has their graphics in the newly updated consoles. With the developers using the AMD technology, the flip to porting over games to PC's should in theory be easier and should benefit AMD in performance, that way.
Click to expand...

Yeah one day maybe - wouldn't hold your breath.
 
opethdisciple said:
£650 for 1080 matching variant according to this.
Click to expand...

That should the correct price.

Saw a UK retailer listed 8GB RX Vega 64 Liquid Edition so it is basically around the same price as 16GB Frontier Edition Air Cooler.

So below are my predication for Vega 64 Limited Edition, Vega 64 Reference Edition and Vega 56 prices brackets...

8GB RX Vega 64 Liquid Edition £950-£999 inc VAT
8GB RX Vega 64 Limited Edition £850-£899 inc VAT
8GB RX Vega 64 Reference Edition £750-£799 inc VAT
8GB RX Vega 56 AIB custom Edition £650-£699 inc VAT
 
JediFragger said:
In that case I'm really glad I went green a few months ago :)

I'm hoping AMD really get moving with 7nm and beyond and give us options!!
Click to expand...

opethdisciple said:
We don't now for sure yet, but if Vega is disappointing, it's probably just laying ground work for what is to come next.

At this point with what we know I am 75% sure my next card is Green. I just hope if Vega isn't anything special that it brings about a price reduction for the 1000 series.
Click to expand...

I feel like the next best couple of moves to get high performance without breaking the bank will be:
  • Get the Volta-1070 card, which should be 1080 Ti performance for about £400 in Q1 2018
  • Plan to move onto the large Navi card on 7nm, hopefully by Q2 2019. Bonus points if it turns out to be an MCM design and the most powerful Navi is over 50 Tflops.
 
AllBodies said:
I feel like the next best couple of moves to get high performance without breaking the bank will be:
  • Get the Volta-1070 card, which should be 1080 Ti performance for about £400 in Q1 2018
  • Plan to move onto the large Navi card on 7nm, hopefully by Q2 2019. Bonus points if it turns out to be an MCM design and the most powerful Navi is over 50 Tflops.
Click to expand...

I don't think I can wait that long for Volta. I currently have a 970 and in some games now it struggles at 1200p. Plus my monitor is trash. It's 9 years old.

I also upgraded to a 1700 from a 3570k and in some games like BF1 I now have to cap fps to 60 otherwise it's way to jerky and tears. It still tears even capped and with adaptive vsynch on but it's bearable.
 
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