The anti Israel = anti semitism agenda

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NVP said:
Haha oh yeh! I went in a mood because of your constant nitpicking and sacked it off
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It’s hardly nit picking to ask what you're actually referring to.

As you'll frequently find people pointing out - legitimate criticism of Israel isn't antisemitism, legitimate criticism would involve being clear about what you're actually criticising in the first place! I mean currently this is just a general Israel thread and people can come in and say "Israel bad" etc... but you've failed to actually substantiate any of the claims you've made in the OP or subsequently.

Plenty of people start a thread like this by including a link to say a news story... you know something that contains the event, incident, thing etc... they're referring to - it is a bit more helpful than vague claims! Especially when the vague claims get basic details wrong.
 
@NVP — were you thinking about this news item, posted just before the Eurovision Song Contest, when you were constructing your OP?

Germany's parliament has condemned as anti-Semitic a movement calling for a cultural boycott of Israel over its policies towards Palestinians.

Lawmakers in the Bundestag said the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) group uses anti-Semitic methods to promote its political goals.

The BDS movement described the decision as "a betrayal of international law".

It comes after the group called for artists to boycott the Eurovision Song Contest held in Tel Aviv this week.
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There seems to be a worrying trend appearing with this and the UK Islamaphobia legislation that @h4rm0ny highlighted recently.
 
NVP said:
No it was this one that prompted the thread: clicky
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That literally is about antisemitism though - where is the confusion there? That isn't anti Israeli criticism being conflated with anti semitism it is literally a story about increased attacks on Jews and someone's advice re: the wearing of a religious item that could identify someone as a jew.

From the OP:

NVP said:
What am I missing with the following:

Israel have been pushing their anti-isreal=anti-semitism angle quite hardcore the past couple of years.

They have publicised a new definition of antisemitism and have managed to get governments to listen.

Now they promote the fact Jews in other countries get attacked and use it as a way of influencing that foreign country to retrain its police/teachers etc in the new definition, to push their agenda through right from the top.
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So actually we've established Israel haven't publicised a new definition of antisemitism, the story you've now linked to is about blatant antisemitic attacks on jews (not some "anti-Israel=anti-semitism angle") and it still isn't clear what you're referring to with regards to "their agenda" here - in the context of that story their agenda is objecting to antisemitism - which seems like a reasonable position to take no?

What are you missing? Well basic factual information it seems...
 
Who sucked all the fun out of your life man?

The article prompted the post mainly because of the reaction to use these attacks to push the controversial definition officially onto public servants via retraining, the same thing happened elsewhere which is why it stuck out to me. Fear has form.


Enjoy the vagueness :)
 
NVP said:
The article prompted the post mainly because of the reaction to use these attacks to push the controversial definition officially onto public servants via retraining, the same thing happened elsewhere which is why it stuck out to me. Fear has form.
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Again, what are you referring to there?

If you're going to start a thread where you start talking about antisemitism and agendas, Israel apparently manipulating governments etc.. then just provide a link to what you're actually talking about. So far you've come out with a right load of BS that just isn't supported by the story you cite.

What question this stuff - because currently you're just playing off antisemitic tropes - it is lazy and stupid.
 
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48498010

George Galloway has been sacked by talkRADIO after sending an allegedly anti-Semitic tweet.

The former MP posted on the social media site after the Champions League final between Liverpool and Tottenham on Saturday night.

He praised Liverpool's win, before adding: "No #Israël flags on the Cup!" - appearing to reference Tottenham's strong links with the Jewish community.

On Monday, the radio station said it had terminated his weekly show.

Mr Galloway hit back at his former employer, tweeting: "See you in Court guys."
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"blatant anti-semitism" :rolleyes:

So if you're against Israel, you now lose your job. What a time to be alive.
 
G-MAN2004 said:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48498010



"blatant anti-semitism" :rolleyes:

So if you're against Israel, you now lose your job. What a time to be alive.
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Conflating Jewish and Israel is the big part of the problem though and is, imo, anti-semitic. Just because you are Jewish doesn't mean you support Israel. Many Jews do not.

EDIT: This isn't me arguing he should lose his job, it's me taking issue with the conflating of Israel and Jewish.
 
I'm sorry but if you guys can't see how he's used a teams Jewish fan base as a link to the country of Israel and how that is racist then perhaps you need to be forced to go on a training course of some kind where they teach you modern thinking, correct thinking.



I think I'm serious.



Edit: Conflating. That's a good word.
 
G-MAN2004 said:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48498010



"blatant anti-semitism" :rolleyes:

So if you're against Israel, you now lose your job. What a time to be alive.
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People are quite happy to go and protest outside the Israeli embassy when it responds to aggression but the same people will turn a blind eye to the horror's the Russia perpetrates when it's stealing land from it's neighbours, causing civil war or dropping bombs in Syria. When people protest about Israel it's often used as a veil to try and mask peoples true feelings towards to the Jews. It's obvious, blatant and disgusting.
 
Teh_Next said:
But how does that equate to anti semitism? People mixing things up isn't anti anything, it's just ignorant.
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Anti-semitism is mainly a specific sub-set of racism. Unless one is opposed to the religious component which seldom seems to be the main issue. To me, any conflation of someone's race with someone's values, any treating an individual as part of some social or political group based on their race, is a form of racism. Literally pre-judging.

I have strong feelings about people equating Jewish and Zionist. Now that's probably not why his critics are angry - they're likely annoyed because he criticised Israel. But to me anybody treating the two as the same thing is doing something logically indefensible. Whether they're a Zionist or anti-Semitic.
 
h4rm0ny said:
Anti-semitism is mainly a specific sub-set of racism. Unless one is opposed to the religious component which seldom seems to be the main issue. To me, any conflation of someone's race with someone's values, any treating an individual as part of some social or political group based on their race, is a form of racism. Literally pre-judging.

I have strong feelings about people equating Jewish and Zionist. Now that's probably not why his critics are angry - they're likely annoyed because he criticised Israel. But to me anybody treating the two as the same thing is doing something logically indefensible. Whether they're a Zionist or anti-Semitic.
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That is not anti semitism.
anti-Semitism is a subscribed political ideology that deliberately propogates hostility towards Jews, (even though Semites aren't exclusively Jewish). Or if not politically motivated then it's hostile prejudice towards Jews. It's different to simply disagreement of their values borne of ignorance or getting terminology wrong.

Which is what I think you're saying here?
 
Teh_Next said:
That is not anti semitism.
anti-Semitism is a subscribed political ideology that deliberately propogates hostility towards Jews, (even though Semites aren't exclusively Jewish). Or if not politically motivated then it's hostile prejudice towards Jews. It's different to simply disagreement of their values borne of ignorance or getting terminology wrong.

Which is what I think you're saying here?
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That's not what I'm saying. Anti-semitism is prejudice against Jews. I'm referring to conflating Zionist and Jew. To assign someone particular political values based on their ethnicity is offensive to me. And more importantly, flawed logic and understanding. Really, "offensive" doesn't matter. What matters is it perpetuates a false idea and also bolsters a tool of actual bigots (both those who are pro-Israel and those who are not).
 
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So Tottenham fans had Israeli flags up in their supporters end and Galloway said he was glad there wouldn't be any Israeli flags on the cup, am I missing the anti semitism here?
 
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