The anti Israel = anti semitism agenda

[NVP]

As someone who has grown up having to battle the ingrained racism of our society the best medicine I have found is love and laughter, keep on smiling and you'll have a healthy soul regardless of the crumbling world around you.


Oh but yes misrepresent me with your comment and I'll cave #****demjewboys

 

[dowie]

I'm not the one misrepresenting things in this thread - you made a bunch of claims that you either got basic facts wrong about or simply failed to back up. You then tag me days later with some nonsensical post and then respond with "hahaha".

I'm not sure that promoting antisemitic tropes and then laughing about it after it is pointed out that you can't even get basic details right (nor does your apparent source actually contain what you claim) is really the best medicine. The best medicine is perhaps to stop perpetuating harmful stereotypes in the first place, especially if you're clearly in the wrong.

What point were you trying to make by tagging me in the previous post? Just pure baiting because you're bored?

 

[NVP]

You again misrepresent me when you say "promoting antisemitic tropes". You know it was ignorance as you pointed that out yourself so don't inflate it bro.

I tagged you for the lols because it makes me smile

Regarding the rest of your points, I'd have addressed them previously if I didn't think it would turn into more point scoring/nitpicking that I don't have the time, no will to bother with. You win Mr Dowie sir

 

[NVP]

I rushed the last post as my baby was crying. It's all meant friendly.

 

[dowie]

I tagged you for the lols because it makes me smile

Regarding the rest of your points, I'd have addressed them previously if I didn't think it would turn into more point scoring/nitpicking that I don't have the time, no will to bother with. You win Mr Dowie sir

I don't understand your mentality here - you don't like the "nitpicking" (as in asking for basic facts/evidence you can't provide for the points you made but instead come back with irrelevant posts about putting your kids to bed etc...). You're all about peace and love etc... then you want to tag me anyway days later "for the lols" so I come back and post in the thread again etc... which you didn't like before?

 

[NVP]

Listen bro, what's your address let me send you a hug and some maxi pads.

 

[NVP]

Did that garner a smile at least?

 

[dowie]

2/10 /don't give up the day job for comedy just yet

 

[NVP]

 

[NVP]

@dowie OK hopefully this is close enough to what you usually beat it to, it's been a while for me this is the best I got.

My original issue stemmed from what I was lead to believe an Israeli Governement "mission" to globally define a new definition (the IHRA definition) of antisemitism (nothing to do with Israel!) in their favour

Israel have been pushing their anti-isreal=anti-semitism angle quite hardcore the past couple of years.

They have publicised a new definition of antisemitism and have managed to get governments to listen.

You correctly informed me this was a group based outside of Israel consisting of members from multiple countries - I since found potentially biased articles linking the Israeli government to lobbies across the globe apparently working to get the IHRA definition adopted by their respective country. I did not site these but have given enough info for you to do the Google if you wanted your brain corrupted.

The article I should have quoted in my OP is the one I've quoted just below and would have given the following reference but I don't see how its such a necessity.

Now they promote the fact Jews in other countries get attacked and use it as a way of influencing that foreign country to retrain its police/teachers etc in the new definition, to push their agenda through right from the top.

Based off of this I wondered the reason this would be pushed and how it would benefit those pushing it who I have assumed to be the Israeli gvt. (And this is the issue you have with my post, see later..)

But... What is this agenda? Is it to concrete Israel as its own permanent country? I thought that was already the case. Is it to make us feel less bad about Palestine? Doesn't matter how bad we feel no one with power cares enough to stop it.

So... Why? What am I missing? Or do I just need sleep?

Which @Jokester replied straight away and killed and could have just /thread right there.

By blurring the lines between anti-semitism and legitimate criticism of the Israeli state's behaviour they can silence their critics, especially if it's also backed by the law in the respective countries. Even without the law backing it, just the social stigma can be enough for people to self censor criticism of Israel if they think enough people buy into it as anti-semitism.

Article:

No it was this one that prompted the thread: clicky

Now I completely get your stance of me spouting inaccurate theories based on assumptions as potentially conforming to some template of antisemitic criticism, however none of what I posted was malicious or insulting or deliberately offensive to anyone and the only one who related it that way was yourself and then later on Dolph Harris. So, just perhaps, it's your constant highlighting of potential related offence and that is actually giving the stereotype more weight. I did say perhaps, but if so then boom that's gone full circle!

 

[dowie]

@dowie OK hopefully this is close enough to what you usually beat it to, it's been a while for me this is the best I got.

My original issue stemmed from what I was lead to believe an Israeli Governement "mission" to globally define a new definition (the IHRA definition) of antisemitism (nothing to do with Israel!) in their favour

OK so now we know that it isn't "their" definition but rather the IHRA definition - what exactly is the issue with a Jewish state campaigning against discrimination of or attacks on Jews?

The article I should have quoted in my OP is the one I've quoted just below and would have given the following reference but I don't see how its such a necessity.

You've already pointed this out and I've already replied to this - you then ignored any follow up and have just posted it again without any explanation of how it fits your claims:

That literally is about antisemitism though - where is the confusion there? That isn't anti Israeli criticism being conflated with anti semitism it is literally a story about increased attacks on Jews and someone's advice re: the wearing of a religious item that could identify someone as a jew.

How does that article related to: " The anti Israel = anti semitism agenda" ? The title of the thread or indeed the OP

Now I completely get your stance of me spouting inaccurate theories based on assumptions as potentially conforming to some template of antisemitic criticism, however none of what I posted was malicious or insulting or deliberately offensive to anyone and the only one who related it that way was yourself and then later on Dolph Harris. So, just perhaps, it's your constant highlighting of potential related offence and that is actually giving the stereotype more weight. I did say perhaps, but if so then boom that's gone full circle!

Well the constant highlighting of it was in reply to the constant evasion from you... You made a bunch of claims, went in for the whole hidden agenda angle and I simply asked what you were referring to, what they were based on... then for a few pages you produced absolutely nothing. Eventually you produce an article which you've now referred to again and which is about literal anti semitism... yet there is no explanation of how that article relates to what you've claimed in the OP.

@Irish_Tom even tried to help you by finding an article that might well have fit your OP better:

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/32755819/

But that apparently wasn't what you were referring to, you were referring to actual anti semitic attacks (re: the BBC article) which has little to do with what you were talking about in the OP.

 

[NVP]

Oh man still the same thing?? Is this the part of the article you're missing?

He also called for police officers, teachers, and lawyers to receive training to clarify "what is allowed and what is not" when "dealing with anti-Semitism".

Come on man, srsly now.

 

[dowie]

Oh man still the same thing?? Is this the part of the article you're missing?

Can you attempt a coherent response perhaps instead of this nonsense - you're referring to a quote from Germany's anti semitism commissioner, talking about.... anti semitism?

What exactly do you think I'm missing there with regards to the claims you've made that you're still yet to actually clarify or support or explain in any way...

edit - in addition to confusing the IHRA, an international organisation based in German with the state of Israel have you also conflated a German government official with Israel too with regards to your claims about Israel pushing some agenda here?

This is who you're quoting with regards to anti semitism, he's literally a guy whose job is to do this:

https://www.bmi.bund.de/EN/ministry/commissioners/anti-semitism/anti-semitism-artikel.html

yet you're using the fact he's doing his job to claim some Israeli agenda.... again the basis for your claim is rather flawed in this instance.

German federal government commissioner appointed to oversea (in part) antisemitism recommends making some changes/introducing some training to fight against antisemitism... well no ****, that's what he's supposed to do...

 

[NVP]

 

[dowie]

Great... and we're back to the nonsensical responses where you're going to make a joke about the fact you've made a load of stuff up here that you can't support.

If you're going to quote me yet again or tag me in a post in a few days time then at least try to respond to the criticism or put forth something coherent.

So far the claims you've made re: Israel actually related to an international organisation that tackles anti semitism and a German government official... not great so far.

 

[NVP]

That's all fine and dandy but quite unessesary as it isn't institutional racism the article was about and also my main point which I'm not sure if you're deliberately trying to steer somewhere else or honestly missing my meaning is regarding the new definition being the IHRA definition which suggests criticism of Israel equates to antisemitism (thread title, the link).

German man pushing German based groups definition is irrelevant, we know who benefits the most from pushing this.

 

[NVP]

Also, what's wrong with joking about man? You honestly that dull?

 

[dowie]

That's all fine and dandy but quite unessesary as it isn't institutional racism the article was about and also my main point which I'm not sure if you're deliberately trying to steer somewhere else or honestly missing my meaning is regarding the new definition being the IHRA definition which suggests criticism of Israel equates to antisemitism (thread title, the link).

You're all over the place here - if you've got an issue with the IHRA deflection then go ahead, I'm not objecting to that,. I literally explained this to you already, days ago, in about the third post I made in this thread:

This is again rather vague, it isn't clear what you're actually referring to and what is the issue you're to raise in relation to it?

Multiple governments are involved in the IHRA in the first place. I don't see an issue with a general notion of Israel trying to promote a definition of anti semitism in itself.

If you've got an issue with the definition then you might well have some good arguments against it etc.. Or if there is some specific instance where you think Israel has done something underhand with regards to this then that might be interesting. But there really isn't much hear to discuss or reply to with regards to what this thread is in relation to.

Of course it can no doubt generate some general discussion about anti semitism and/or Israel etc... but the title and OP is about an apparent agenda.

German man pushing German based groups definition is irrelevant, we know who benefits the most from pushing this.

You brought it up, you literally quoted him in post #112 and said "Is this the part of the article you're missing?" now you're saying it is irrelevant???? Why did you quote him then?

Also, what's wrong with joking about man? You honestly that dull?

WTF is wrong with you - you quote me in a serious point you get a serious reply and then just ignore it and throw in a stupid gif... you wanted to tag me yesterday to bring me into the thread and then did the same, then today you quote me to point out an article you've already pointed out and have already had a response to...

Then the bit of the article you want to highlight, that supposedly supports your point, is a quote from a German minister... that you're now calling irrelevant.

all this stems from is me asking you what you're referring to with regards to the claims you've made... and it turns out you're unable to back them up.

 

[NVP]

Whats so hard you can't seem to grasp where I'm coming from? I responded to your initial query regarding the issue with the IHRA definition, why ignore that now?

You seem adamant that I'm no making sense but you skip and chop to suit which I don't find appealing to respond to in the way you wish.

Regarding the quote, I'm not going to hold your hand through it anymore man, you're seriously sucking the life from me wanting some colour by numbers version of what I'm saying. If you're still struggling then we'll just have to call it a day. You obviously aren't getting my point and I'm obviously not making it well enough. But I think you've been extremely difficult from some strange offended stance where you have inflated an ignorant statement into racist / antisemitic "trope" which is dishonest and almost tabloid esque and kind of ironic.

 

[Em3bbs]

I would just give up on this one dowie, I don't think you're going to get any kind of reasonable response from someone like that. From a casual readers point of view they have already been hung by their own petard.