I got a similar performing card for £650 3.5 years ago so the fact that a £600 new card today only provides a couple more FPS, some efficiency improvements and FG for a handful of games is quite disappointing but at least it’s an improvement over the original.
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The better late than never OcUK RTX4070 Super review thread!
- Thread starter CAT-THE-FIFTH
- Start date
Caporegime
The purchasing power of £650 in todays money is not the same as 3.5 years ago.
Caporegime
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- 18 Oct 2002
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- 30,124
I can confirm that this only gets 2hrs with a higher class 'ho and an 8ball
I miss the 80s!!! :sob:
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£650 was a 980Ti Classified a top end 980Ti, now you get a xx70 class card for it, with a smaller pcb, with less components, smaller die, worse cooler and worse warranty.
Even then we were saying the 980Ti was too expensive and complaining how the prices were getting more and more silly, look at now people are pretending a xx70 class is fine for £650.. which it is not and sorry a xx80 class is also not worth $1200 or the up coming xx80Ti that will be at least $1350-$1450 depending on how well these so called 4080 Supers sell.
Nvidia has lost the plot, tech was meant to get better at the same price for the same category it fell into + real world inflation.
3080 (GA102 largest chip for PCIE GPUS) at $700 to 4080 (AD103 smaller chip that falls between the xx70 and xx80 so really should be a xx75 card) at $1200 over 2 years is not real world inflation increases as the best example of any card but you can even go back after the GTX 580 and see this mess starting at the GTX 680 where they priced them about same but gave you a xx70 class chip pretending to be an xx80 class. They increased prices by giving smaller chips and increasing the prices, so more profits right from these two factors.
Anyways, we will see what happens next gen if 50 series still ends up down this path and they don't fix the pricing, the fake naming, the never ending die size games too and the next software gimping methods to make the new range look x2 x4 x5 etc better than previous gen, but really only software tricks to make it look like better hardware when really all you are buying is software improvements with minor hardware improvements.
Sad times for the pc gaming and seems like consoles if they remain to have sensible pricing may end up as most peoples main gaming rig, but knowing Sony and Microsoft they will also try to push the limits too with pricing as they have clearly done with game prices so far, so soon maybe hardware prices go up too as they can't push software prices up again after how many spoke up about it.
Guessing why MS made the Xbox series S and X, to have two tiers of pricing and see how they end up and as we have seen series X has actually dropped a lot since release and on sale days is very cheap for what it is but they also know they will trap people into the games and subscriptions, maybe why their new series X is dropping the 4k UHD drive next update so the rumours are going (which is a huge fail in my book) and a digital version only so ms store only purchases and no way to sell old games on.
Soldato
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- 28 May 2007
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I did get a 7900xt for £650 back in the summer. £700 for the card and sold starfield for £50 and this super makes that deal look pretty good. Was only on for a day so blink and you missed it.
Or 5 mins ago
Soldato
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- 28 May 2007
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- 10,102
I agree in the main but on the console front, prices probably won't be pushed as the main profit is in software sales and peripheral's hence why they used to sell the consoles at a loss. I can see a ps5 Pro being £500 to £550 but not much more as that's probably not going to suit there market. PC gamers were always willing to pay a lot of money from day one in comparison and manufacturers of gpu's don't have the fallback of making money from games and Peripheral's.
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Or am I hitting that copium too hard?
Yes. Inflation in the UK has zero impact on inflation in Asia where these cards are made.
Also the £350~£400 RTX3060TI was made during a Pandemic where costs of parts could be a few times what they are now. China was in lockdown. Freight cost a lot of money,etc.GDDR6/GDDR6X was a few times more expensive than it is now. Also,the RTX4070 uses a much smaller die(and so does the RTX4070TI). Basically the RTX4070TI has a similar die size and memory controller to an RTX3060!
Plus on top of this the RTX3060TI to RTX4070 performance jump is around the same as the RTX2060 Super to RTX3060TI jump,and less than the GTX970 to GTX1070. It is also not massively higher than the GTX1070 to RTX2060 Super jump.
Basically 40% to 50% performance jumps per generation at the £300~£400 mark have been standard for years.The RTX4070 is a £350~£400 class card at best like the RX7800XT,because at best they are an RTX4060TI and RX7700XT.
Except as usual hardware enthusiasts and gamers just have to use convoluted logic to make sense of all of it. The reality is Nvidia/AMD are having a Gentlemen's agreement to push prices as high as possible. It's like some weird Stockholm Syndrome gamers have and it is the main reason they try these tricks. Its the same with gamers moaning at EA,etc and yet these companies rake in billions despite dodgy practices.
It is increasingly obvious that large corporations have identified gamers as the easiest Whales to take advantage off.
Who needs marketing when gamers justify any sort of price rise? You already have admitted instead of paying £370 for an RTX3060TI replacement you will pay nearly £600,because the RTX4060TI is POS. So next generation you can pay £800 for the card that gives 50% over an RTX4070 Super.
Maybe Big Oil needs to get some of that marketing in - then people would be happy to pay lots for gas,petrol,etc.
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Inflation in the UK has zero effect on the countries where these products are made,which are usually in Asia. The RTX3000/RX6000 were launched nearly 9 months into a Global Pandemic.
Their RRPs took into account sky high GDDR6/GDDR6X pricing,high shipping prices,labour shortages due to lockdowns,high subcomponent prices due to factory shutdowns,etc.
Most of these factors are not present now with things such as VRAM dropping massively in price. Lots of other products which had issues during the Pandemic,now have much more availability and lower prices. The only thing that might have gone up is the cost of cutting edge TSMC wafers,but Nvidia is using the equivalent of an RTX3060 chip in the RTX4070TI.
In the end the price increases have zero to do with costs and all to do with greed. The last time we had a sudden jump in price or a stagnation was Turing V1 which happened right after a Mining Boom. Gamers brought this on themselves. Many paid beyond the odds during the Pandemic and Miners did the rest. Nvidia and AMD got used to the high prices. Just like in 2018.
They have made every card under £500 utter trash,to force people to spend over £500. JHH apparently said he wanted a dGPU to cost the same as a whole console.
The reality is Gamers just cave in. You see it with all the moaning about EA,Activision-Blizzard,etc doing rubbish things but they make tons of money. Nvidia/AMD know Gamers don't have much willpower so they just need to hold their ground and do the minimum and they get a nice pay day.
Sony was breaking even on the PS5 in 2021:
Sony Confirms PS5 Disc Edition Breaks Even, PS4 Sales Now Total 116.4 Million Units - PlayStation LifeStyle
Sony has confirmed the PS5 Disc Edition has broken even. Overall PS5 sales have totalled 10.1 million while PS4 sales now total 116.4 million units.
www.playstationlifestyle.net
Yes,2021 when TSMC 7NM was a cutting edge node and GDDR6 memory and NAND prices were high.
PC Gamers are getting mugged by Nvidia/AMD with dGPU pricing.
The RTX2060 to RTX4060 performance jump was only 50% over three generations after four and a half years:
The jump from the RX5600XT to the RX7600 was around the same.
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In my book every $600 card and under means you are better off buying a console now, they are just not worth it especially if you need to build a new build, if just a drop in upgrade then you really need to look at 7800xt/4070 and up if you really need a pc gaming machine and a use for a computer apart from just gaming. If just gaming and you don't own many pc games then consoles are looking really good now in this "new world" Nvidia/AMD has left us in for dGPUs.
It's reached the point where you wouldn't recommend PC gaming to anyone with less than 2-3 grand to spend on a rig. At least a grand of that on the GPU!
I can't see myself upgrading what I've got today. 3060 Ti (which was already overpriced) and a 5600x. That will have to do, simply put. Aint no way I'm giving them a single cent in this market. Of course they don't care, but increasingly neither do I. It's not like I game as much as I used to, anyhow.
Speaking of memory pricing. Saw news today that high end chips are now in shortage, due to the production cuts made last year which have now washed up there is now a shortage of nand and it's expected that SSD prices will increase by a lot within 3 months
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Soldato
- Joined
- 30 Jul 2012
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- 2,774
I actually see myself giving up PC gaming when windows 10 ceases to have developer support. I am not sure if windows 11 will be supported once the former retires though, they are literally the same OS and I could see myself using windows 11 LTSC if it is still in operation a few years down the road.
Indeed made sure I bought what I needed when the prices were very low.
You saw my calculations? The RTX4060/RX7600 are barely 50% faster overall than the RTX2060/RX5600XT after 4.5 years and 3 generations. These will be the most popular cards of each company as time progresses.
Nvidia/AMD are holding back PC Gaming now because of their greed.
Plenty of other hobbies to spend money on too. Honestly it's embarrassing we get trash like the RTX4060TI/RTX4060TI.
This is worse then Apple.No wonder when Apple makes less margins than Nvidia. Yet lots of PCMR mock Apple. And it also means AMD/Intel also try a fast one.
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Soldato
Unless there is a collapse in demand for GPU's I can guarantee you Blackwell will be just as depressing. The only thing on the horizon that may offer some relief is Intel's Battlemage and that's provided you don't want to go 4k.
Definitely an opportunity for Intel if they don't squander it and price them too high.
His videos aren't as brand/PR orientated i.e. HUB stand, DF, gamer nexus and so on stand out more because of how they sell themselves and their style of content, not to mention, those big channels have been around for how long? IIRC, DO only started 2-3 years back?
I'm not a huge fan of DO as he does waffle on but you can't dismiss his findings/content just because he doesn't have millions of subs..... Also, some of the things that he showed in that video would not translate well in a written article e.g. the way nvidia gpu with same vram handled vram bottleneck situations more gracefully than the equivalent amd gpu with the same vram. Also, DF and the other big tech press have often referenced to his videos to further back up the conclusions they have come to, which reinforces the part that he isn't just small time randomer.
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Soldato
- Joined
- 21 Apr 2007
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Daniel 'mid-roll ad break' Owen 
Soldato
4070s sales suck according to mild.