The England Cricket Thread

Cob said:
Wow :eek:


Jennings goes for a duck. But what a ball!
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It was fine. But if Jennings had half decent technique and got forward sometimes it wouldn't have done much. If he had a full stride down the pitch, which he should have done to a ball that length, then even if he'd missed it it's a tough shout for LBW. First rule of batting is get forward unless there's a good reason not to. I don't understand why that doesn't seem to have been taught to Jennings, or how he's been allowed to open the batting at this level with his technique
 
CHokKA said:
Ah well, here we go again...

Hungry for runs my backside!
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At least they've got out to two good balls. Jennings isn't good enough, but neither he nor Root were out thrashing outside their off stump which is an improvement.

When Bairstow's fit to keep again, I'd like to see us try Buttler or possibly even Moeen at 3 and move Root down one to take him away from the new ball.
 
manic111 said:
At least they've got out to two good balls. Jennings isn't good enough, but neither he nor Root were out thrashing outside their off stump which is an improvement.

When Bairstow's fit to keep again, I'd like to see us try Buttler or possibly even Moeen at 3 and move Root down one to take him away from the new ball.
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He'd be fine where he is if the bloody opening batsmen stuck it out and did their jobs properly! He's only having to play the new ball because a wicket almost always falls during the first 10 overs!

Where he bats isn't the problem. Englands collapse culture and lack of a decent opening pairing is the real problem, and it's been that way for years. We've constantly tried different partners for Cook and it just never works out.
 
CHokKA said:
He'd be fine where he is if the bloody opening batsmen stuck it out and did their jobs properly! He's only having to play the new ball because a wicket almost always falls during the first 10 overs!

Where he bats isn't the problem. Englands collapse culture and lack of a decent opening pairing is the real problem, and it's been that way for years. We've constantly tried different partners for Cook and it just never works out.
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I agree, to an extent, but the best number 3s have it in their locker to (effectively) open the batting should an opener go early. Root can't do that. He's our best batsman; give him a little more protection and he'll score more runs.
 
manic111 said:
I agree, to an extent, but the best number 3s have it in their locker to (effectively) open the batting should an opener go early. Root can't do that. He's our best batsman; give him a little more protection and he'll score more runs.
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How long has he been batting at three though? I thought it's been that way for quite a while now. Since before he was even captain, when he was scoring runs regularly, he was still facing the new ball through wicket losses and was quite successful then. The one thing that's changed now is he has the burden of captaincy. Going back through history shows that this burden can usually affect mentality when batting. I don't think it's all down to the new ball. It is a shame that he's constantly finding himself at the crease in the early overs of the game though. That shouldn't be happening and it needs to be addressed, but for some reason the team don't want to full admit to there being a major issue because a few good games inevitably happen and then it's forgotten about until something like today and the 3rd test happens again.
 
CHokKA said:
How long has he been batting at three though? I thought it's been that way for quite a while now. Since before he was even captain, when he was scoring runs regularly, he was still facing the new ball through wicket losses and was quite successful then. The one thing that's changed now is he has the burden of captaincy. Going back through history shows that this burden can usually affect mentality when batting. I don't think it's all down to the new ball. It is a shame that he's constantly finding himself at the crease in the early overs of the game though. That shouldn't be happening and it needs to be addressed, but for some reason the team don't want to full admit to there being a major issue because a few good games inevitably happen and then it's forgotten about until something like today and the 3rd test happens again.
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If you scroll down here: http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/303669.html#bataves, you can filter his stats by position. He's had most success at 5, then 4, then 3 (averages of 73, 53 and 40 from 17, 26 and 23 matches respectively).
 
manic111 said:
If you scroll down here: http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/303669.html#bataves, you can filter his stats by position. He's had most success at 5, then 4, then 3 (averages of 73, 53 and 40 from 17, 26 and 23 matches respectively).
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Ah cool, nice one :) I definitely remember him batting at 5 and 4 and even at those positions, sometimes he'd be in to bat early due to a collapse. Sort of like now. Ben Stokes in, 13th over? Not right...

I don't think he should be playing anyway, after his off-field antics, but that's a whole different story. Still, it goes some way to demonstrate just how the ECB and the selectors operate these days. He brawls in the street but still has a place in the team. That's not right.
 
CHokKA said:
Ah cool, nice one :) I definitely remember him batting at 5 and 4 and even at those positions, sometimes he'd be in to bat early due to a collapse. Sort of like now. Ben Stokes in, 13th over? Not right...

I don't think he should be playing anyway, after his off-field antics, but that's a whole different story. Still, it goes some way to demonstrate just how the ECB and the selectors operate these days. He brawls in the street but still has a place in the team. That's not right.
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Oh definitely, I'm not saying that if he bats at 4 he won't ever face the new ball, but it should reduce the likelihood of him doing so and in turn improve his average.

The issue is that we seem to breed great number 6s at the moment (Stokes, Bairstow, Buttler, even arguably Moeen and Vince) but nothing else. Long term, I think we'd be best off if we bring youngsters (eg Pope and Habeeb) into the Test team now and let them stick it out, and develop into good Test top order batsmen, rather than being ruined by playing one day and T20 cricket. We should have done the same with Malan years ago, his talent was obvious. We'd weaken the team (albeit not substantially) in the short term, but long term we'd have some proper openers and 3s and 4s rather than guys who come from playing one day cricket and aggressively at 6 in the County Championship, to having to adapt their game when facing a relatively new ball in Test cricket where they just need to survive for an hour or two.

On Stokes, I don't think you can write him off for life due to his misdemeanours, but I agree that he should have been banned by the ECB for a substantial (6-12 month) period. He made a big mistake and that deserves to be punished, but equally if he learns from it and becomes a better person then he also deserves to come back into the fold. To have effectively been let off the hook entirely by the ECB is ridiculous, though.
 
manic111 said:
On Stokes, I don't think you can write him off for life due to his misdemeanours, but I agree that he should have been banned by the ECB for a substantial (6-12 month) period. He made a big mistake and that deserves to be punished, but equally if he learns from it and becomes a better person then he also deserves to come back into the fold. To have effectively been let off the hook entirely by the ECB is ridiculous, though.
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I agree. I don't think a lifetime ban would be appropriate, but he should have at least been placed on suspension after the court verdict whilst the ECB conducted their own investigation, something which they stated that they were doing but nothing further has been heard of that. And said investigation should have resulted in a ban of some sort because this just says that his behaviour is acceptable and sets the wrong example for young children that look at cricketers as their idols. He was literally immediately put back into the squad for the next test. It was like they were waiting for the moment the verdict was delivered. They shouldn't have changed the team from the first test because that selection worked, but they pushed younger players out in favour of a player that hasn't seen a huge amount of cricket recently, and one that wouldn't have had the mental headspace needed to endure a test match.
 
Jeez young Curran bats well with the tail. Took control and got England to a half-respectable score.
 
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