Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

[Narj]

Well the German Finance minister has helpfully suggested that "out is out" (no sarcasm here), so that clears things up somewhat.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ss-for-uk-after-brexit-wolfgang-schauble-says

Osborne has spun it as we can't access the EU trade area at all without paying in and accepting free movement of people. What utter tosh.

Now for the Brexit camp to suggest where to go from there assuming that is the situation. I say suggest because they aren't the govenment so can't form policy.

I'm still on the side of leave regardless because I'm certain we'll still get a good, low-tariff deal because it's in all of our mutual interests.

I also found that an interesting thing to do is to ask someone in an appropriate senior management position in your workplace what they think will happen in the event of Brexit.

 

[do_ron_ron]

Well the German Finance minister has helpfully suggested that "out is out" (no sarcasm here), so that clears things up somewhat.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ss-for-uk-after-brexit-wolfgang-schauble-says

Osborne has spun it as we can't access the EU trade area at all without paying in and accepting free movement of people. What utter tosh.

See the above on Norwegian etc.

I'm still on the side of leave regardless because I'm certain we'll still get a good, low-tariff deal because it's in all of our mutual interests.

Wrong. If the EU allowed the UK a low tariff deal then every other of the 27 countries would want the same throwing the EU into further chaos. It is more likely that the EU will go for a high tariff to warn other EU countries the perils of doing an exit.

 

[Caged]

Wrong. If the EU allowed the UK a low tariff deal then every other of the 27 countries would want the same throwing the EU into further chaos. It is more likely that the EU will go for a high tariff to warn other EU countries the perils of doing an exit.

But you can't predict the future!!!!!111

 

[Narj]

See the above on Norwegian etc.

Wrong. If the EU allowed the UK a low tariff deal then every other of the 27 countries would want the same throwing the EU into further chaos. It is more likely that the EU will go for a high tariff to warn other EU countries the perils of doing an exit.

A low tariff deal is obviously worse than what we have at the moment. It would be crazy to think the EU would offer us exactly the same benefits when not paying into the bloc. I don't know why the Brexit campaign aren't just being more open on this.

Prohibitive tariffs can work both ways and it wouldn't make sense to either party. Can you really see us getting hit for 10-15% or even more on European cars, fruit, wine and other products? That idea is frankly laughable.

 

[do_ron_ron]

But you can't predict the future!!!!!111

No. Logically what would they do?

1. Allow UK a special deal and risk all countries demanding the same
2. Tell the UK the tariffs they will have to pay if they want to trade, making them high to avoid claims of favouritism.

After all, what does the UK produce that EU countries could not get anywhere else in the world? Nothing.

 

[Caged]

A low tariff deal is obviously worse than what we have at the moment. It would be crazy to think the EU would offer us exactly the same benefits when not paying into the bloc. I don't know why the Brexit campaign aren't just being more open on this.

Prohibitive tariffs can work both ways and it wouldn't make sense to either party. Can you really see us getting hit for 10-15% or even more on European cars, fruit, wine and other products? That idea is frankly laughable.

As far as I know the tariffs are applied to imports, not to exports. So it's not Germans making their cars more expensive, they would need to take so much from us that lower tariffs make sense.

I think Germany in particular would quite happily try and encourage financial services to shift to Frankfurt than mess around with negotiating tariffs that they are unlikely to benefit from being set low.

No. Logically what would they do?

1. Allow UK a special deal and risk all countries demanding the same
2. Tell the UK the tariffs they will have to pay if they want to trade, making them high to avoid claims of favouritism.

After all, what does the UK produce that EU countries could not get anywhere else in the world? Nothing.

C'mon man, sarcasm. Although I wouldn't be surprised if your points are countered with accusations of not having a good enough opinion of the UK and somehow a traitor.

 

[do_ron_ron]

A low tariff deal is obviously worse than what we have at the moment. It would be crazy to think the EU would offer us exactly the same benefits when not paying into the bloc. I don't know why the Brexit campaign aren't just being more open on this.

Prohibitive tariffs can work both ways and it wouldn't make sense to either party. Can you really see us getting hit for 10-15% or even more on European cars, fruit, wine and other products? That idea is frankly laughable.

EU countries have had to swallow the banning of goods to Russia which hurt some of them. What makes you think the UK is so special that they would give a special deal which would threaten the whole EU. That is laughable.

 

[do_ron_ron]

C'mon man, sarcasm. Although I wouldn't be surprised if your points are countered with accusations of not having a good enough opinion of the UK and somehow a traitor.

Missed that

 

[Woden]

What if the govenrment of the time just doesnt want to opt out?

Then that's our democratic decision. Since we elected them to make the decision for us.

 

[Mulder]

If they end free movement of people, the other parts of the deal also end - that trigger is automatic. The EU has said sod off because Switzerland can't unilaterally end just free movement... but if they want to end everything they're more than welcome to do so. But with Switzerland that's a great negotiating position... 'Take it all or leave it all'.

Is it bullying to say, 'be in the club, or don't... it's your choice'?

It depends how reasonable "the club" is. What you're really saying is "the EU doesn't negotiate". I would tend to agree, but there's a reason why a third of MEP's are eurosceptic, UKIP has risen out of nowhere, the far right in France/Germany/Austria are gaining significant support, Britain is having a referendum, the people of France/Sweden want their own referendum.

The EU needs to change, it is failing in its current form.

All very well the remain camp saying "the EU will never do this, do that etc" but all they're really doing in undermining their support for an institution that is going against the wishes of the people.

Easy to say if you think it's unlikely to happen, and if you don't bother to do your job properly whilst lapping up the money... and, if it does happen, you know you can make £££ advising companies if a Brexit actually happens/will get a nice pay off and pension.

Ex-MEP's will advise companies if a Brexit actually happens? Where did you get that from?

Whether you like it or not Eurosceptic MEPs (including UKIP) were put their by the people. Not that many people admittedly, voter turnout for MEP elections is terrible and getting worse. Why? Because people realise it makes no difference and the Parliament has little power.

24 MEPs not taking part in the systems they were elected into under some sort of guise of not giving it legitimacy, while telling everyone how undemocratic the EU is.

Bunch of children.

A third of MEPs are eurosceptic. As above, you may think they're children but the few people who actually bothered to vote put them there. Maybe to send a message to the EU which is basically "we don't like the way you're operating".

 

[estebanrey]

The deal you're sure of - will we be better off, worse off, or no different to now? What sort of deal do you mean? EEA membership? Outside of the single market?

Are you making the 'better the devil you know' argument?

 

[Caged]

A third of MEPs are eurosceptic. As above, you may think they're children but the few people who actually bothered to vote put them there. Maybe to send a message to the EU which is basically "we don't like the way you're operating".

I can't support the actions of someone who puts themselves forward for an MEP position and then when they get there decide that the best thing to do for the country/party they are representing is to barely participate, hoping that it sends a message that they are unhappy. If they don't want to be there and don't feel the european parliament has any point to it then step aside and let someone else have a go.

It's like people who don't vote complaining about their government.

 

[estebanrey]

Wrong. If the EU allowed the UK a low tariff deal then every other of the 27 countries would want the same throwing the EU into further chaos. It is more likely that the EU will go for a high tariff to warn other EU countries the perils of doing an exit.

Is the EU a collection of member states who all democratically decide and can veto any decision that would severely affect any given member or is it an unelected central organisation that can impose its will on its members?

I wish you remainers would make up your mind, because when it comes to attacking arguments that we are being dictated to you tell us that we can elect our MEPs who in turn elect the commission and that everything is democratic and that we can even veto legislation if it is detrimental to the UK.

Yet your visions of post-Brexit are that 'EU Management' will tell the French their farming industry will just have to suck it up when their biggest export market is suddenly restricted due to tariffs, or instigating images of Angela Merkel trotting off to tell the Directors of BMW to adjust their dividends down as they'll be advocating their club making Beemers less attractive to UK consumers.

Ain't going to happen and you know it.

 

[Mulder]

I can't support the actions of someone who puts themselves forward for an MEP position and then when they get there decide that the best thing to do for the country/party they are representing is to barely participate, hoping that it sends a message that they are unhappy. If they don't want to be there and don't feel the european parliament has any point to it then step aside and let someone else have a go.

It's like people who don't vote complaining about their government.

They didn't pretend they loved the system, then switched when they got elected. They campaigned on an anti-EU platform, and got elected, that's what the (few) people who bothered to vote for them wanted. Essentially two fingers up at the EU.

 

[itchy]

Cameron's speech made last November to the CBI annual conference :

" So today I also want to debunk an argument that is sometimes put around by those who say ‘stay in Europe come what may’. Some people seem to say that really Britain couldn’t survive, couldn’t do okay outside the European Union. I don’t think that is true. Let’s be frank, Britain is an amazing country. We have got the fifth biggest economy in the world. We are a top ten manufacturer, growing steadily strong financial services. "

Source
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/cbi-annual-conference-2015-prime-ministers-speech

 

[aardvark]

I also found that an interesting thing to do is to ask someone in an appropriate senior management position in your workplace what they think will happen in the event of Brexit.

i talked to my ceo last week and he said he was angling towards leave.
i was a bit surprised as in previous jobs he was high up in a couple of very large corporations and did most of his business in europe.

 

[Caged]

They didn't pretend they loved the system, then switched when they got elected. They campaigned on an anti-EU platform, and got elected, that's what the (few) people who bothered to vote for them wanted. Essentially two fingers up at the EU.

It just comes across as a massive waste of time. If they have issues with the EU then use their MEP status to try and change things. If they feel the UK needs a better deal then vote in favour of proposals that benefit the UK. If they disagree with the entire concept of the EU then join a party in the UK that campaigns on a leave platform and run for parliament.

If you are happy to do very little and receive an allowance for it then be an absent MEP I guess, while moaning about the waste in the EU system.

 

[Mulder]

^^ Cameron's had some other crackers as well from a few years ago:

"People feel that the EU is heading in a direction that they never signed up to. They resent the interference in our national life by what they see as unnecessary rules and regulation. And they wonder what the point of it all is. Put simply, many ask 'why can't we just have what we voted to join - a common market?' David Cameron

I (for once) agree with you Dave!

 

[StriderX]

i talked to my ceo last week and he said he was angling towards leave.
i was a bit surprised as in previous jobs he was high up in a couple of very large corporations and did most of his business in europe.

Doesnt mean he cant still do business.

 

[Judgeneo]

Wherea the Korean option?

Pretty sure that CETA doesn't involve any budget contribution or open borders too.