yeah i know that - i was just surprised that he favoured leave as i expected him to say stay.
I was quite impressed by the arguments he made - he's no fool.
Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)
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yeah i know that - i was just surprised that he favoured leave as i expected him to say stay.
I was quite impressed by the arguments he made - he's no fool.
I work in banking and surprisingly a lot of people in the office (me included) want to leave. Despite remainers claim that the city will be a barren wasteland in 10 years if we leave.
These guys have the right idea - EU referendum: 110 bosses say City will 'thrive' outside EU
Same situation and industry. I was expecting doom & gloom, threats of mass redundancies and a strong argument for remain, however what we got was quite different.
I wouldn't be so sure. London is the global financial centre for loads of reasons - our world leading legal system, business friendly employment laws, perfect timezone spanning Asia/the US, education system etc.
No EU country even appears on the top 10 globally leading financial centres (here), although Switzerland is in there.
Nobody wants to work in Frankfurt anyway.
Soldato
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I was using a shorthand of the EU to get over the argument. The individual countries heads meeting together(better?) are faced with giving a favourable deal to the UK which will disadvantage their individual countries. What do you think the individual Govts will do? Roll over? They would not be able to sell it to their own people/parliaments. The best the UK can hope for is a Norway - all of the things they don't want with no say.
France was told it could not sell a ship and Eastern European countries could not sell dairy and fruit to Russia for example. What makes this so different.
Merkel would as she would be faced with instability as other EUU countries queue up for a UK style deal.
As you say
I wouldn't be so sure. London is the global financial centre for loads of reasons - our world leading legal system, business friendly employment laws, perfect timezone spanning Asia/the US, education system etc.
No EU country even appears on the top 10 globally leading financial centres (here), although Switzerland is in there.
Nobody wants to work in Frankfurt anyway.
If, and I accept it's a big if, the EU mandates that euro denominated transactions take place in a euro zone country, they won't have a choice, Frankfurt will become the defacto centre of European finance.
The euro would crumble if that ever happened. Never going to happen.
Think about the financial centres using euros in the US and Far East as well as London.
Britain seems to be going down the toilet, brexit and the chavish culture will dominate in a few decades. Look at the euro riots for example. Barely any natural resources or any sort of talent and excellency in an area. Being part of the eu and London are the only two reasons things are somewhat holding together. Give it another decade and scotland with its natural resources will also bail for sure this time.
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Sorry not all euro transactions, but the ECB already tried to mandate that clearing houses for euro derivative trades be based in the euro zone, the UK won a case against that last year but if we weren't in the EU any longer. And you can understand why they want it changed, its strange for a major currency to have its central bank not have control of the majority of trade in its currency.
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FYI from the Times today.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/leaked-uk-plan-to-open-doors-for-1m-turks-n085h225w
Leaked UK plan to open doors for 1m Turks
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/leaked-uk-plan-to-open-doors-for-1m-turks-n085h225w
Leaked UK plan to open doors for 1m Turks
You do understand that visa free travel doesn't mean they can come and work or stay here?
If he did, he wouldn't have posted it and claimed a million turks on their way but brexit is not about baseless scaremongering and the evils of the EU
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More detail recently from the BBC :
Turkey visa move suggested by UK diplomat, papers show
2 hours ago
From the section EU Referendum
Image copyright Getty Images
Image caption Turkey has long been pressing for visa-free travel to the European Union
A British diplomat suggested visa-free travel for some Turkish nationals should be extended to the UK, documents leaked to the Sunday Times show.
She suggested the move be considered for Turkish "special passport" holders, who are mainly civil servants.
Justice Secretary Michael Gove said it showed the UK was "actively working" towards Turkey's EU entry.
But the UK home and foreign secretaries said any suggestion of changing visa arrangements was "completely untrue".
The EU backed Turks getting visa-free travel inside Europe's Schengen area, of which the UK is not a member, as a deal for accepting more migrants.
The leaked telegrams, sent on 5 May by Janet Douglas, the deputy head of mission at the British Embassy in Ankara, relate to the EU's own visa deal planned as recompense for Turkish help dealing with the Syrian migrant crisis.
The deal, to allow visa-free travel to Schengen countries, was offered in return for Turkey taking back migrants who crossed the Aegean Sea to Greece. The EU fears that, without it, Turkey will not control migration.
What is the Schengen agreement?
EU sets out road to Turkey visa deal
In one leaked document, Ms Douglas said that when the EU deal was implemented "we will need to develop our own lines on the UK's stance to visa-free travel for Turks".
"One option would be to assess again the possibility of visa travel for Turkish special passport holders which would be a risk, but a significant and symbolic gesture to Turkey."
'Open the floodgates'
Special passports are mainly held by civil servants, their spouses and their unmarried children below the age of 25.
Within the reported deal there was no suggestion that "special passport holders" would have access for work.
Ms Douglas was also said to warn that failure to bring in the visa-free travel deal could prompt Turkey to "open the floodgates" and allow those fleeing Syria and elsewhere easier access to the EU.
It is not known how the Foreign Office responded to this correspondence from Ms Douglas.
But Mr Gove, who backs the UK leaving the EU, told the BBC's political editor Laura Kuenssberg that the implications of the documents were clear.
"Later this year, if EU plans are implemented, then we'll have visa-free travel for 77 million Turks throughout Europe," he said.
"It appears from this diplomatic telegram today that there are suggestions that some special Turkish passport holders will be allowed to come to the UK as well.
"The evidence is that the British government and the EU are actively working towards Turkey joining the EU and Turkish citizens being able to travel throughout the EU."
'Appalling deceit'
Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond and Home Secretary Theresa May - both of whom back the Remain campaign - said there had been a selective leak of diplomatic telegrams and that the story was "completely untrue".
They said border restrictions would not be lifted "regardless of what arrangements other member states... may make with Turkey".
In a joint statement they said: "The government's policy is, and will remain, to maintain current visa requirements for all Turkish nationals wishing to visit the UK, regardless of what arrangements other member states in the Schengen area may make with Turkey.
"Schengen visas do not give anyone the right to access the UK.
"The purpose of diplomatic telegrams is for our embassies around the world to feed back information on the position and views of foreign governments.
"They are reports from our diplomatic posts, not statements of British government policy."
Mr Cameron has said Turkey joining the EU is not "remotely on the cards", describing the issue as a "red herring" in the referendum debate and making clear the UK has a veto on any prospective member joining the bloc.
The EU agreed in March to offer Turkey the proposed visa-free access by 1 July but the country has yet to fulfil all of the conditions laid down by the European Commission, including changes to Ankara's anti-terrorism laws to meet EU concerns over human rights.
Turkish civil servants probably don't get refused visas anyway.
Nevertheless, this was a suggestion from a diplomat.
Can always refuse such a suggestion if it makes sense to.
This suggestion was for the record a position for the UK to take. The UK can still do that outside of the EU.
Nevertheless, this was a suggestion from a diplomat.
Can always refuse such a suggestion if it makes sense to.
This suggestion was for the record a position for the UK to take. The UK can still do that outside of the EU.
I wonder if anyone can point me back in the right direction here, because I have actually encountered a counter-argument to leaving I wasn't expecting.
The central over-riding thing for me has always been that the EU is undemocratic, some would even say anti-democratic. I've kind of taken it as read this whole time that this is a bad thing, and overrides all economic concerns.
The counter-argument attacks the foundation of my position, and says that democracy sucks. It has failed. For example, democracy is the reason New Orleans was left to twist after that hurricane (they don't vote republican, so the republican controlled government at the time didn't lift a finger to help them). The EU, being more technocratic than democratic, is free to do what's right, instead of what'll earn them more votes.
This argument makes me uneasy, but I'm finding it hard to articulate why without feeling like a bit of a conspiracy nut. The idea that important decisions are taken by people we don't know and don't have any kind of control over just seems... horrible. But that's not a good explanation.
Of course, the EU's track record of "doing what's right" is hardly beyond reproach. CAP is universally decried by everyone except France as being a terrible idea, for example. The Euro wasn't properly thought through, and has resulted in significant human misery. But even if we accept that the EU is this big benevolent progressive force for Good in the world, the fact that the people in charge never have to explain themselves to the public makes me worry that this won't always be the case. There's nothing to stop the rich and powerful from installing their corporate lackeys into positions of power to benefit themselves at the cost of the public. Is that too paranoid a thing to think?
The central over-riding thing for me has always been that the EU is undemocratic, some would even say anti-democratic. I've kind of taken it as read this whole time that this is a bad thing, and overrides all economic concerns.
The counter-argument attacks the foundation of my position, and says that democracy sucks. It has failed. For example, democracy is the reason New Orleans was left to twist after that hurricane (they don't vote republican, so the republican controlled government at the time didn't lift a finger to help them). The EU, being more technocratic than democratic, is free to do what's right, instead of what'll earn them more votes.
This argument makes me uneasy, but I'm finding it hard to articulate why without feeling like a bit of a conspiracy nut. The idea that important decisions are taken by people we don't know and don't have any kind of control over just seems... horrible. But that's not a good explanation.
Of course, the EU's track record of "doing what's right" is hardly beyond reproach. CAP is universally decried by everyone except France as being a terrible idea, for example. The Euro wasn't properly thought through, and has resulted in significant human misery. But even if we accept that the EU is this big benevolent progressive force for Good in the world, the fact that the people in charge never have to explain themselves to the public makes me worry that this won't always be the case. There's nothing to stop the rich and powerful from installing their corporate lackeys into positions of power to benefit themselves at the cost of the public. Is that too paranoid a thing to think?
Clearing isn't everything, the UK could still easily be the global financial capital despite no longer clearing Euros.
Besides, the Euro is in major trouble (another Euro crisis is coming). Even if we leave they'd be shooting themselves in the foot further removing themselves from the UK economy and its financial hub.
Soldato
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Democracy hasn’t failed. When the vast majority of the population are attempting to violently overthrow the government, that’s when democracy has failed.
Democracy isn't fantastic, but it's a hell of a lot better than tyranny.
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