Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

[McBain]

Our pensions, the NHS and defence at risk over brexit:

Http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36509931

Another day, another remain BBC article.

Standard.

 

[Tunney]

The Sun backs Brexit, no surprise really.

http://www.cityam.com/243236/the-sun-backs-brexit-asks-its-readers-to-beleave-in-britain

I assume that the crowd who criticised Obama for sticking his oar in will criticise Australian Murdoch for doing the same?

 

[jas72]

Another day another unfounded story by the leave.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36523764

Once again they try to protray an upturn in the economy and lots of spare cash for the NHS.

Everyone knows it'll be a downturn and the UK will have to borrow more meaning public spending cuts.

I haven't yet read a story anywhere where anyone says there will be a short term gain but again here we have leave saying between now and 2020 BOTH the grants will get paid AND there'll be spare cash?

Beggers belief!

Fed up with BBC bias every head line is positive for the leave.

Here's number 5 on most read at the moment..

EU grants protected if UK leaves





it's only until you read further you see the lies and wishes instead of facts or reality.

 

[delta0]

We certainly won't be the last to leave. This is just the start. There are a lot of other countries equally or more eurosceptic than the UK.

 

[scorza]

Dan Hannan outlines 10 EU plots afoot for after the UK votes to stay in: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-bombshells-EU-s-keeping-secret-ve-voted.html

1. Banning hair-dryers (not too bothered about this one tbh)
2. A bigger budget - well duh!
3. Open borders for Albania, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro and Turkey
4. More bail-outs - the last Greek bail out forced the UK to cough up £600m. How much will it be next time?
5. Deeper integration, specifically on budgets, economic policy, taxation and elements of social security
6. More Human rights cases being ruled on by the ECJ, which was supposed to only rule on trade disputes
7. Arts import licences - because London is the centre of the global fine art trade
8. Wrecking our ports - a really important one that shouldn't be overlooked.
9. Quotas for online TV - might be good for getting rid of stupid TV series based on comic books for kids tbf
10. A European Army - yes it's coming, we all know it.

 

[McBain]

Fed up with BBC bias every head line is positive for the leave.

lol.

 

[Freakbro]

lol.

What? Confirmation bias is rampant on both sides of the fence.

 

[McBain]

What? Confirmation bias is rampant on both sides of the fence.

Rampant from the remain side, can't disagree with that.

Look at the history of articles on the BBC, it's dominated by remain bias.

 

[Mulder]

I assume that the crowd who criticised Obama for sticking his oar in will criticise Australian Murdoch for doing the same?

I was one who criticized Obama, not for his intervention per se, but that it was a veiled threat from a lame duck President and done as a favour to Cameron. The Sun's full Brexit article is copied below. I don't see any veiled threats, In fact unlike the remain "doom" rhetoric I see a lot of positives to leaving, which summarises the differences in the two camps for me.

WE are about to make the biggest *political decision of our lives. The Sun urges everyone to vote LEAVE.

We must set ourselves free from dictatorial Brussels.

Throughout our 43-year membership of the European Union it has proved increasingly greedy, wasteful, bullying and breathtakingly incompetent in a crisis.

Next Thursday, at the ballot box, we can correct this huge and *historic mistake.

It is our last chance. Because, be in no doubt, our future looks far bleaker if we stay in.

Outside the EU we can become richer, safer and free at long last to forge our own destiny — as America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and many other great democracies already do. And as we were the first to do centuries ago.

If we stay, Britain will be engulfed in a few short years by this relentlessly expanding *German dominated federal state.

For all David Cameron’s witless assurances, our powers and values WILL be further eroded.

Staying in will be worse for immigration, worse for jobs, worse for wages and worse for our way of life.

Greece is bankrupt.

Italy is in danger of going the same way, with even more disastrous consequences.

In Spain, 45 per cent of those under 25 are out of work.

And numerous even poorer and worse-governed countries are now joining the EU.

To remain means being powerless to cut mass immigration which keeps wages low and puts catastrophic pressure on our schools, hospitals, roads and housing stock.

In every way, it is a bigger risk.

The Remain campaign, made up of the corporate establishment, arrogant europhiles and foreign banks, have set out to terrify us all about life outside the EU.

Their “Project Fear” strategy predicts mass unemployment, soaring interest rates and inflation, plummeting house prices, even world war.

The Treasury, Bank of England, the IMF and world leaders have all been wheeled out by Downing Street to add their grim warnings.

Nonsense! Years ago the same politicians and economists issued apocalyptic predictions about our fate if we didn’t join the euro.

Thank God we stopped that. The single currency’s stranglehold has since ruined the EU’s poorer nations and cast millions on the dole.

We are told we cannot be in the single market without accepting all the rules, free movement of people included.

If so, let’s leave it and, using our enormous clout as the world’s fifth biggest economy, strike great trade deals with the other 85 per cent of the world.

And pick and choose the best migrants from the whole world.

If we stay in the EU, as Cameron wants, we will finally give up any chance of controlling our population. Cameron admits it.

Vote Leave, and we will reassert our sovereignty — embracing a future as a self-governing, powerful nation envied by all.

We will re-establish the basic principle that we are governed by politicians we elect or eject every five years, not foreign bureaucrats.

The Sun has campaigned relentlessly against the ever-expanding superstate.

But the EU cannot reform.

Remain has conducted a deceitful campaign. It has been nasty, cynical, personally abusive and beneath the dignity of Britain.

Our country has a glorious history.

This is our chance to make Britain even greater, to recapture our democracy, to preserve the values and culture we are rightly proud of.

 

[philip2009]

Bigger image -

 

[Freakbro]

I don't know TBH. Brown is quite a skilled orator.

Yeah, listening to his speech yesterday, you could tell how good an orator he is. It was engaging and passionate.

Then immediately afterwards the news cut to Boris doing a speech, and it was like watching a Punch and Judy show in comparison, it was just peurile and pathetic. I was thinking if Boris did become PM, PMQ's would be like a weekly mini HIGNFY

 

[And]

lol, because a right wing Australian republican who lives in the US and backed the milk snatcher has Britain's best interests at heart?

Bigger image

 

[MookJong]

If we vote to Brexit then Cameron has something to take to the EU bargaining table.

"I can let this go through or you can offer the UK public another chance with a better deal, up to you"

Personally I would favour this, but I cannot see it happen.

 

[Tunney]

The Sun's full Brexit article is copied below. I don't see any veiled threats, In fact unlike the remain "doom" rhetoric I see a lot of positives to leaving, which summarises the differences in the two camps for me.

Really?

It is our last chance. Because, be in no doubt, our future looks far bleaker if we stay in.

If we stay, Britain will be engulfed in a few short years by this relentlessly expanding German dominated federal state.

For all David Cameron’s witless assurances, our powers and values WILL be further eroded.

Staying in will be worse for immigration, worse for jobs, worse for wages and worse for our way of life.

Greece is bankrupt.

Italy is in danger of going the same way, with even more disastrous consequences.

In Spain, 45 per cent of those under 25 are out of work.

And numerous even poorer and worse-governed countries are now joining the EU.

To remain means being powerless to cut mass immigration which keeps wages low and puts catastrophic pressure on our schools, hospitals, roads and housing stock.

In every way, it is a bigger risk.

That sounds like "doom" rhetoric to me.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I was one who criticized Obama, not for his intervention per se, but that it was a veiled threat from a lame duck President and done as a favour to Cameron. The Sun's full Brexit article is copied below. I don't see any veiled threats, In fact unlike the remain "doom" rhetoric I see a lot of positives to leaving, which summarises the differences in the two camps for me.

Emm,I see veiled threats:

If we stay, Britain will be engulfed in a few short years by this relentlessly expanding *German dominated federal state.

Their “Project Fear” strategy...

Project Fear?? The problem is that it is typical Fear mongering to call one sides entire argument "fear mongering" and is an example of using it just to ignore it. Because for all the moaning that the "Stay campaign" is using fear mongering,I see the same tactics being used by the "Leave campaign".

Fear of leaving.
Fear of staying.

It basically boils down to that.

Yet,the last three major recessions and bad economic decisions since the 1960s have been down to mostly the incompetence of our own governments,and industry figures and a whole host of factors which is outside the control of Europe - we should be far more worried about own governments from right to left and their accountability to the voters and that has been an issue for over 50 years now,well before we joined the EU.

 

[Tefal]

Yeah

I haven't yet read a story anywhere where anyone says there will be a short term gain but again here we have leave saying between now and 2020 BOTH the grants will get paid AND there'll be spare cash?

Beggers belief!






.

Well there would be the money that would normally go to funding rhe EU.


Say we gave them 100m, they rebate us 40m, then grants give us 20m.

If we left wed have the full 100m not the 60m we normally would have.

Plus youd think there would be aome accounting savings

 

[Six6siX]

I don't see any veiled threats, In fact unlike the remain "doom" rhetoric I see a lot of positives to leaving, which summarises the differences in the two camps for me.

No negativity? No threats of doom and gloom? The article basically tells us we are all **** and then goes, there there, it's ok you can make it better if you leave the EU..

Are you reading the same article? It's a piece of poorly written emotive trash with no basis in any data - based entirely on assumption and the exact same opposing rhetoric. Promises that everything will be better are easy to make when you aren't accountable for them. I'm not saying it's any better than the journalism being banded about by some 'remain' efforts, but to hold it as a bastion of shining light is foolish.

At least with 'remain' you have a lot of demonstrable positives to the EU along with the doom and gloom they spout to oppose the 'leave' side.

I took some time to go through this article and it is honestly crap.

We must set ourselves free from dictatorial Brussels.

Wut.

Throughout our 43-year membership of the European Union it has proved increasingly greedy, wasteful, bullying and breathtakingly incompetent in a crisis.

Next Thursday, at the ballot box, we can correct this huge and *historic mistake.

All very emotive words with no examples at all. Blatant playing on people's reaction and pushing negativity by calling it a mistake.

It is our last chance. Because, be in no doubt, our future looks far bleaker if we stay in.

There's another negative right there.

Outside the EU we can become richer, safer and free at long last to forge our own destiny — as America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and many other great democracies already do. And as we were the first to do centuries ago.

More pointless emotive guff with no evidence. We can already do all that in the EU and more. Security? Destiny? Freedom? What are they on about?

If we stay, Britain will be engulfed in a few short years by this relentlessly expanding *German dominated federal state.

What a stupid sentence.

For all David Cameron’s witless assurances, our powers and values WILL be further eroded.

Negatives again. In the interest of integration, which some see as a positive. The irony again that they place blame on the government they are so keen to put into a position of more power.

Staying in will be worse for immigration, worse for jobs, worse for wages and worse for our way of life.

Negative assumptions again. How is this not scaremongering?

Greece is bankrupt.

So what?

Italy is in danger of going the same way, with even more disastrous consequences.

Negativity again, and foreboding doom and gloom.

In Spain, 45 per cent of those under 25 are out of work.

Negatives again. How is this even relevant?!

And numerous even poorer and worse-governed countries are now joining the EU.

I suspect this is the Turkey 'fact' again.

To remain means being powerless to cut mass immigration which keeps wages low and puts catastrophic pressure on our schools, hospitals, roads and housing stock.

Well, no it doesn't leave us powerless at all and doesn't keep wages low.
The pressure on infrastructure is also well discussed and is a quantity that can be accounted for with proper planning. The positive contribution immigration has is conveniently ignored and, oh look, more negativity.

In every way, it is a bigger risk.

It is the opposite of a bigger risk! It is the KNOWN QUANTITY - inherently less risky! With established data to prove recent trends and with everything we know about the EU and the influence we have, it is the safer option. I think even both campaigns agree on this as do numerous economists and plenty of other high profile people. Stupid point to make.

The Remain campaign, made up of the corporate establishment, arrogant europhiles and foreign banks, have set out to terrify us all about life outside the EU.

And this article and the 'leave' campaign does nothing to inflict a negative stance on anything to do with the EU right?

Their “Project Fear” strategy predicts mass unemployment, soaring interest rates and inflation, plummeting house prices, even world war.

The Treasury, Bank of England, the IMF and world leaders have all been wheeled out by Downing Street to add their grim warnings.

Negative warnings yes, but based on analysis of data. Unfortunately they don't help themselves by succumbing to the fear machine tactic. The 'grim warnings' are no different to the 'grim warnings' in this article.

Nonsense! Years ago the same politicians and economists issued apocalyptic predictions about our fate if we didn’t join the euro.

Thank God we stopped that. The single currency’s stranglehold has since ruined the EU’s poorer nations and cast millions on the dole.

Oh god they mentioned the Euro.

We are told we cannot be in the single market without accepting all the rules, free movement of people included.

Why would you expect anything other than that?

If so, let’s leave it and, using our enormous clout as the world’s fifth biggest economy, strike great trade deals with the other 85 per cent of the world.

Our standing as the 5th biggest economy is irrelevant outside of the context of the EU given that this statistic is based on data which has us in the EU. They're suggesting not trading with the EU here? Really? Our biggest economic partner? Laughable.

And pick and choose the best migrants from the whole world.

We can already do that with the majority of immigrants. That has nothing to do with the EU. Conveniently ignoring that immigration from the EU is not the same as immigration from outside the EU. Who's to even say the best would want to come here - clearly there are a lot of people around the world who find the UK attractive because it is in the EU.

If we stay in the EU, as Cameron wants, we will finally give up any chance of controlling our population. Cameron admits it.

Does he?

Vote Leave, and we will reassert our sovereignty — embracing a future as a self-governing, powerful nation envied by all.

What exactly will 'reasserting our sovereignty' do? Do they even know what they're saying? Ahh, the good old days. It's like my granddad telling me stories about 'when he were a lad'.

We will re-establish the basic principle that we are governed by politicians we elect or eject every five years, not foreign bureaucrats.

That is already the case. What has our current general election process got to do with the EU? Fail to mention that we also elect MEPs.

The Sun has campaigned relentlessly against the ever-expanding superstate.

But the EU cannot reform.

And has added significantly to the problem of misinformation and decisions made on emotive arguments and crap journalism.

Remain has conducted a deceitful campaign. It has been nasty, cynical, personally abusive and beneath the dignity of Britain.

Pot. Kettle.

Our country has a glorious history

This is our chance to make Britain even greater, to recapture our democracy, to preserve the values and culture we are rightly proud of.

It does have a glorious history but every time that is referred to, it's referring to decades and centuries ago. When Britain had the resources and skills and position in the world to succeed independently. We are a part of the EU now and part of something much bigger. We haven't lost our democracy at all and we are still a great nation and will continue to be a great nation.

There are so many statements made in this article that are just there to invoke peoples feelings. It's written to make you think in a particular way. It could have quite easily been written to include figures, examples, positive thinking and showing everything that was positive to leaving in a constructive way. But they haven't - they've done exactly the same as everyone else and gone off on a rant about how crap everything is to get people riled up, then say that everything will be better because everything that is wrong is because of the EU. To hold it as any sort of legitimate case for a leave argument is laughable. But then, it is The Sun and I expect nothing less from it's readers.

 

[Freakbro]

Like I said, confirmation bias is rampant on both sides

 

[rawuk]

Neil Woodfood made some commentary on the EU and household income and how Norway may have it right. Interesting read. [Click here].

I would like to gently point out that nearly all fund managers have come out and said that the UK leaving in the medium to long term will not have a noticeable effect (That's 5 - 15+ years gents if you don't work in finance).

 

[Mtom]

Well as someone who's in the import/export business i'd prefer stay, as i'm afraid about the pound will plummet, and i prefer the free shipping without customs in the EU.
Also i do agree that many things need to change even if stay wins.