Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain a member of the European Union

    Votes: 794 45.1%

  • Leave the European Union

    Votes: 965 54.9%
  • Total voters
    1,759
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Darujhistan said:
Yes he was.

If someone has said 'You wait and see, they'll take away control of our own borders within the EU' just 15 years ago, they'd have carted them off to the nuthouse and termed a crank.

Yet, here we are.
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Well if they had said that they would be an idiot. Free movement of people is in the founding treaties its been an accepted part of the EEC/EU since its creation. When the UK joined in 1972 we could read the treaties and very clearly see that the principle of free movement of people was a key right that was implicitly accepted by choosing to join. Its not been foisted on us recently or in secret. We chose it of our free will through our government and ratified it in 1975 by voting in a referendum to stay in the EEC.

Secondly to say the EU has taken away control of our borders is utter nonsense. We fully control our own borders. The one exception is that with regard to other EU citizens we allow free movement. In relation to the Republic of Ireland we have allowed free movement since 1923 and the creation of the common travel area in 1953. Its still our border though. We also allow Americans to come here without a visa for a visit so does that mean we have lost control of our borders? In relation to citizens of every other country outside the EU we exercise specific immigration rules. In what sense does that mean we have lost control of our borders? We keep customs restrictions, we have border guards, we have passport control and we didn't join the Schengen arrangement. How is that losing control?
 
Mulder said:
The House of Commons (and most other legislatures) debate, argue, things get heated, people get passionate, Governments get defeated. With MEP's it's literally a rubber stamping exercise, it's a joke.

Of course! Would you be able to tell me the difference without looking it up? Of course I can't test that (you might look it up* :p) but you can bet the vast majority of Europeans have no idea what the difference is, why there are two presidents, what their remit/roles are etc. As I say, it's designed to confuse.

*I've looked it up, and still have no idea what the actual difference is.

Are you reading this directly from an EU source? It sounds like it. "Request", "Oversight", these terms don't mean anything in reality.

You're missing the point though - in every other democracy the legislature and the executive are separate (i.e. the separation of power). The EU is specifically not set up like this for a reason.
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Sorry but that is drivel. Have you seen the Commons debate a bill? It is usually 2/3 empty and then when the division comes MP's scurry in from the Bar and Coffee rooms (or maybe their office) and then file through the lobby their whips tell them to go into. Stephen Crabb the DWP minister voted to cut ESA by £30 a week for WRAG group claimants. When he defended it in his local paper he got the whole concept and legal status of the WRAG group wrong. The minister didn't even understand the legislation he voted on! That is the reality of the working of the HofC.

You complain that people wouldn't know the differences between the presidents but how many UK voters can name all the cabinet? or explain what each department is responsible for? or name their local councillor? or their Police Commissioner? these are all elected positions so does the fact that the average UK voter could not name all the permanent heads of the various government departments mean the UK Government is entirely undemocratic? Do you know who the Cabinet secretary is? When did you elect him to his position? when did Parliament elect him? or even ratify him?

Actually very few places have full separation of powers and the UK definitely does not. The PM is head of the Executive and a member of the Legislature as are all ministers some of the executive come from the House of Lords so they are members of the executive and legislature but wholly unelected. Until quite recently the Lord Chancellor was a member of and head of the Judiciary and in the executive and in the Legislature.

Your criticising the EU for something that happens in virtually no democratic countries in the world and certainly not in the one you live in yet this justifies walking out of the EU? Pretty weak.
 
Narj said:
George Osborne says Brexit will mean a 10% rise in income tax.

Does anyone believe a ****ing word this clown says anymore?
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I never have he is an utter incompetent.

Its hard to predict but I think the IFS suggested it may have to go to around a 26% basic rate to try to close some of the spending gap. It would be utter folly though to do it soon after a Brexit decision as its likely we will see a short term shock to the economy and the best response would be a loosening of fiscal policy to try to hold up demand and investment. Any short to medium term reduction in revenue receipts won't feed in for a while anyway so the IFS prediction of a £20-40 bn gap in revenue and spending is more likely to happen slowly over the short to medium term. Most likely it would mean increased borrowing so bang goes the deficit reduction plan. At some point though some tax rises are probably inevitable.
 
Mulder said:
It is, it's only a requirement of EU member states. Norway and Iceland have a bilateral surrender agreement which is based on the principles of the ERA but was negotiated separately.

Australia and America have the right idea on this though, they have specific extradition agreements with the EU, which provide them with far more flexibility to protect their citizens and deny spurious extradition claims. For example, Australia’s Extradition Act of 1988 requires an Australian judge to determine whether an extradition is valid using criteria that include prima facie evidence. As a result there is a higher threshold to justify extradition, along with the ability to refuse on the basis of not meeting national standards.

Of course none of this can possibly be true, because to suggest that the EU would be willing to negotiate on anything is literally laughable. And that's one of the reasons we need to remain, because they won't negotiate. Wait what?
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Oh yes the UK would never sign an extradition treaty with a non EU nation that didn't protect its citizens. Might want to have a look at this one:

UK - US Extradition Treaty 2003.
 
Originally Posted by Narj View Post
George Osborne says Brexit will mean a 10% rise in income tax.

Does anyone believe a ****ing word this clown says anymore?


Remains private polling must be terrifying them.
 
Secondly to say the EU has taken away control of our borders is utter nonsense. We fully control our own borders. The one exception is that with regard to other EU citizens we allow free movement.


It's not nonsense, and you've contradicted yourself in the very next sentence...
 
robfosters said:
I'm a leave voter, but I really think this is going over the top!
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Opening the doors of 2 vans, means the cop who did it recognises that the events inside the vehicle are wrong and possibly arrestable so he obscures the scene from watching eyes or cameras rather than getting the cops inside to stop beating the British couple for doing nothing wrong, wouldn't happen in the UK.
 
Narj said:
George Osborne says Brexit will mean a 10% rise in income tax.

Does anyone believe a ****ing word this clown says anymore?
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ZZZZ is the same person who back in 2010 said that he will reduce the deficit by 2015 by hacking and slashing the budget and raising the VAT to 20%.

Sending the country in recession for two years, the moment it started recovering under Labour.

The he got re-elected in 2015 and said that the target is moved to 2020. And in to2020 he will make sure that is in law, that any future government must keep a surplus. (the next government ofc....)

And who forgot his announcements last year before the election "we reduced borrowing" and got pilloried by the public account committee chairman who said "you borrowed more than Labour, even more than the 2008 bank bailout budget"

Anyone can go and see how much money the country has borrowed online...

So no, I do not trust him.

And also the issue is political. If we vote for Leave, Boris going to replace DC not George.
 
BT.com poll

81%Leave
14%Remain
3%Don't know
"A TNS online poll published today has Leave up four points to 47 per cent, with Remain dropping one point to 40 per cent."
 
What is with the scaremongering rubbish that Osbourne is coming out with? I'm waiting for him to next say the North Sea will swallow the UK if Brexit happens!:rolleyes:
 
Narj said:
George Osborne says Brexit will mean a 10% rise in income tax.

Does anyone believe a ****ing word this clown says anymore?
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Interesting considering the government introduced legislation to not raise income tax.

He's a liar, a complete and utter liar. With any hope we will leave and he will be ousted anyway.

Good thing is, all this fear mongering is just pushing more and more people to leave. The polls are even showing it, everyone is sick of it.
 
McBain said:
Interesting considering the government introduced legislation to not raise income tax.
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Is there anything that would allow the government to circumvent such legislation in the event of an exit considering that whatever budget or commitments drawn up would be in line with Britain being part of the EU?

I think everyone can agree that there would be an impact to leaving - I just wonder if there is a 'get-out' for him in saying something like this and whether it is a real threat based on something they could actually and feasibly do.
 
Six6siX said:
Is there anything that would allow the government to circumvent such legislation in the event of an exit considering that whatever budget or commitments drawn up would be in line with Britain being part of the EU?
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Yes - to put it simply the government - or Parliament to be specific - can vote to repeal any law currently in effect. However given that 57 Tory MPs have just said that an emergency budget as threatened by Osborne, would be "untenable", it looks unlikely that he can do that. The number 57 is significant as well, as it is above the threshold that can trigger a vote of no confidence in the leader of the Conservative party.
 
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