Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

[BaronVonDuncs]

Trade will continue. Just not on the same terms as it previously did.

Nate

Why do leavers keep trotting out the straw man argument that trade will not be stopped by Brexit.

It is not suggested that trade will stop but the terms of that trade will be different. Remainers are not suggesting that trade will stop. The suggestion is that terms of trade will alter in a way that will not be beneficial to the UK economy. Why can't brexiters understand that point or is it that they can't counter it so you resort to weak ass straw man lies instead?

 

[wordy]

Maybe we should have a democratic system whereby we elect representatives to make decisions on our behalf?

Maybe you could offer some insight instead of sarcastic one liners?

 

[izzop]

Spectator comes out for brexit, great editorial explaining why

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/world-spectator-backs-brexit/

A very good read, thanks for the link.

 

[estebanrey]

Why do leavers keep trotting out the straw man argument that trade will not be stopped by Brexit.

It is not suggested that trade will stop but the terms of that trade will be different. Remainers are not suggesting that trade will stop. The suggestion is that terms of trade will alter in a way that will not be beneficial to the UK economy. Why can't brexiters understand that point or is it that they can't counter it so you resort to weak ass straw man lies instead?

Bit like remainers and their strawman that leaving the EU won't "stop" immigration then.

 

[McBain]

Bob Geldof, what an absolute bell...

He truly is a grade A ****.

 

[Nate--IRL--]

Bit like remainers and their strawman that leaving the EU won't "stop" immigration then.

Indeed, Immigration will continue. Just not on the same terms as it previously did.

Nate

 

[BaronVonDuncs]

I would stop buying German cars, and watch their country fall apart(as it is starting to now with mass immigration). We are(BMW) biggest customer in the EU, so I very much doubt they would price themselves out of the market. Looks like you've fell for the scaremoungering, and are doing a bit of it for the remain campaign. I guess it's a case of "Do you have faith in the British people?"... I do.

Agreed about andrew, and I'll drop the royal family, we should dismantle them next, once the Queen has gone.

That is pretty idiotic. The UK reducing its purchases of German cars won't wreck their economy. They will sell them elsewhere I suspect. It's not them pricing themselves out of the market they don't control it. If we don't have a trade agreement with the EU then trade falls back on WTO rules. If the EU imposes a tariff on cars it will most likely be reciprocal. Its not a choice for the German car manufacturers. If the £ falls then the cost of trading into the UK would rise. Its not about German choice or pricing themselves out its just a fact of the way international trade works between countries with different sovereign currencies.

Its not scaremongering to make an assessment of how a decision like this will impact the economy and then point that out. What is scaremongering is spreading racist lies about migrants, or lies about the kind of trade deals likely to be available after Brexit, or lies about the £350m a week nonsense. The reason Leave keep pathetically parroting the pitiful whining squeal about project fear is the utter and complete inability in any way to actually answer the reality of what Brexit might mean in economic terms.

What does faith in the British people have to do with anything? Do I have faith? Don't know, the British people have voted in disgusting Tory scum governments time after time, the BNP EDL UKIP are racist hate filled bigots so not much faith in them either. Like all things its a mixed bag, some aspects of the UK are good, some make me puke so I don't see how faith comes into it at all.

 

[w1lliam]

Bit like remainers and their strawman that leaving the EU won't "stop" immigration then.

We have control of immigration outside of the EU, the government always lays the blame at the feet of the EU.

Immigration from within the EU is going to be difficult to negotiate as wanting any access to the common market is going to be met with the unrestricted movement of labour/citizens.

Not accessing the common market will still mean trade, but with the WTO method would subject goods and service entering the EU to MFN tariffs which means raising the cost of exporting to the EU making us less competitive.

This is not scaremongering, just simple facts of what would happen.

 

[b0redj0rd]

Gove is doing pretty well on BBC1 right now.

Poll of Polls is stretching in favour for BREXIT. : https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-polling/

 

[estebanrey]

That is pretty idiotic. The UK reducing its purchases of German cars won't wreck their economy. They will sell them elsewhere I suspect.

Do you know how market forces work? If there was a market "elsewhere" as big as ours, willing to pay the same amount they'd already be selling to them as well.

They are allowed build more factories you know

 

[BaronVonDuncs]

Bit like remainers and their strawman that leaving the EU won't "stop" immigration then.

'A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.'
​

So the argument that immigration won't stop if we Brexit is being made by Remain. Its a counter to the argument being made by Leave that Brexit will reduce immigration. Hence not in any way a straw man argument.

The fact that leavers like you don't even understand the English language sufficiently to make cogent arguments does not really persuade me that you are the kind of intellectual heavyweights that are correct about Brexit.

 

[Steedie]

Watching Question Time, these young students that go on just try to be as rude and obnoxious as possible in the hope of being in the paper/on TV like the lady the other day. Doing my head in, not interested in the debate at hand, just looking to say something to get a reaction. And it's always remain voters

 

[StriderX]

Can someone please explain why a bunch of champagne socialists think their idea of going out on an expensive barge to argue why they know about fishing industries than actual trawlers was smart and beneficial?

 

[b0redj0rd]

Can someone please explain why a bunch of champagne socialists think their idea of going out on an expensive barge to argue why they know about fishing industries than actual trawlers?

I have absolutely no idea, but it is gold for Leavers - So cheers Bob. A few more Geldof and Izzard appearances on TV and the vote is all but in the bag.

 

[BaronVonDuncs]

Do you know how market forces work?

I studied economics as a postgraduate at Harvard University, so maybe.

If there was a market "elsewhere" as big as ours, willing to pay the same amount they'd already be selling to them as well

Not necessarily as the impact of scale costs or trade arrangements or currency fluctuation might all reduce the benefit of those other markets. The point being made is that in the event that due to external factors like Tariffs and currency fluctuations the price for UK consumers might rise which basic micro economics suggests will reduce demand. In that circumstance then the response would be to seek other markets or reduce supply/production.

 

[w1lliam]

I studied economics as a postgraduate at Harvard University, so maybe.

But i read the sun, so it's all the same really isnt it? /s

In other news Gove's father calls him a liar about the EU destroying his company.

Not that it will stop Leave using the argument...

 

[Roar87]

the BNP EDL UKIP are racist hate filled bigots so not much faith in them either

I don't understand how you can group UKIP in with the BNP and EDL, which of their policies do you consider racist? I totally agree with the BNP and EDL but people like you just throw UKIP in there as if any sort of opposition to immigration is immediately grounds to scream racism

 

[C64]

Scary that young people think staying in the eu is good for them.
It's going to be terrible for the young youth unemployment will go through the roof.Our in work benefits system is very attractive for eu adults with kids all the jobs the young would be doing are being done by adult eu migrants because it can turn a minimum wage job in to a decent salary.Meanwhile our young cannot even claim housing benefit.

On what planet is anti mass migration of white europeans coming here racist ? unless they mean racist against white people which they obviously don't.

 

[StriderX]

Young people are just aggressively naive and look for groups to belong to because it makes them feel "safe".

Today's youth dont deserve the language they speak, let alone a vote.

 

[{T5K}TT]

Why do leavers keep trotting out the straw man argument that trade will not be stopped by Brexit.

It is not suggested that trade will stop but the terms of that trade will be different. Remainers are not suggesting that trade will stop. The suggestion is that terms of trade will alter in a way that will not be beneficial to the UK economy. Why can't brexiters understand that point or is it that they can't counter it so you resort to weak ass straw man lies instead?

The UK terms of trade (the ratio of an index of a country's export prices to an index of its import prices) with the EU are likely to alter if the UK decides to leave the EU. By how much and how fast is not an easy question to answer. But, as you might know, for the first 2 years after a Brexit, no legislation needs to changes (because of a treaty clause). It seems to me that if you think with 100% certainty that the terms of trade will worsen during those 2 years, then that is quite some crystal ball you got there. Plausible arguments can be made either way, and the behaviour of the UK government in the light of a Brexit will be quite different to what it is now: It will be concerned with reducing uncertainty (one of the main costs of Brexit).
Once the dust has settled, and a trade deal with the EU is developed, what is likely is that UK firms exporting to the EU will face higher costs making their exports relatively more costly versus remaining to in the single market. But that makes an important assumption: All else in respect to EU taxes and legislation that impacts on product and service costs remains constant; it might not, so increasing costs for our UK exporters (which has been the usual trend).

What seems to me is that reducing the case to remain in the EU to an argument about trade and the economics of trade supposes that is all there is to the EU. The direction of the EU is that of economic and, above all, political union.

How about democratic accountability and the fact that we can not hold the EU Commission to account at the balot box, despite the fact they develop laws that impact on the UK? There are fundamental questions of democratic accountability and legitimacy. It seems to me that voting to Leave is the only way of restoring some democratic accountability to the UK system.