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Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Rilot, Jun 1, 2016.

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Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  1. Remain a member of the European Union

    794 vote(s)
    45.1%
  2. Leave the European Union

    965 vote(s)
    54.9%
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  1. C64

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 16, 2007

    Posts: 12,384

    Location: London

    He just debunked that
     
  2. davewhite04

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 28, 2004

    Posts: 3,940

    Location: Newcastle upon Tyne

    Britain is Britain, if you don't like it, leave.
     
  3. scorza

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 22, 2004

    Posts: 26,685

    Location: Deep England

    In 1970 the UK caught 410,000 tons of fish from the North Sea. In 2002 it was just 295,000 tons. Denmark caught 528,000 tons of fish from the North Sea in 1970, in 2002 it catches 1,249,000 tons of fish from the same area. Something tells me it's not British fishermen who are fishing themselves out of business.
     
  4. scorza

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 22, 2004

    Posts: 26,685

    Location: Deep England

    Hmm. Nice unverifiable claim there.
     
  5. Six6siX

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 25, 2004

    Posts: 4,760

    Location: Hertfordshire

    Right back at you. Don't bother voting to change it. :p
     
  6. C64

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 16, 2007

    Posts: 12,384

    Location: London

    "we are your friend" yea right as long as you get tax credits housing benefit child support for doing a menial job.

    Eu citizens have a much better deal here than we can get in their countries.

    Name one country in the eu where a brit can turn up and get an unskilled job let alone all the in work benefits and housing.

    Other countries are patriotic and anti outsiders yet all for the eu it makes no sense.

    In france they will employ a frenchman over an outsider same in spain portugal germany greece italy.

    This is a class war all the eu money goes to nobby middle class stuff like the arts.

    I am convinced now the eu is a project to protect the established middle classes lot.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
  7. pitkin

    Gangster

    Joined: Sep 3, 2009

    Posts: 174

    If we a part of a union, surely no country in that union should be more beneficial to live in than any other. Investment could be shared equally to make sure each member state has the chance to prosper. Healthcare, benefits, pensions, living wage could all be brought up to a single standard. This would curtail a lot of economic migrancy. I've spoken to enough people from other countries to know a lot of them would rather be earning a living in their own country, but the opportunities just aren't there for some of them.

    I'm voting out because the EU isn't interested in making a better life for it's citizens. All we hear about is immigration and trade in any debates. Nobody mentions what a massive missed opportunity this EU project has been. We could have created something good, something to bring parity across all of Europe and make sure all of it's citizens could enjoy a good life. Instead it's been about power and money.
     
  8. Nate--IRL--

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 20, 2004

    Posts: 3,498

    Location: Dublin, Ireland

    Ireland. What do I win?

    Nate
     
  9. BaronVonDuncs

    Gangster

    Joined: Oct 14, 2009

    Posts: 190

    Location: Southampton UK

    I was born here so why leave? The fact that I would like to see it change does not mean I want to or should have to leave.

    Besides it the United Kingdom that's the subject of this decision not just Britain.
     
  10. {T5K}TT

    Gangster

    Joined: Jan 15, 2004

    Posts: 424

    Location: UK

    I studied economics at University College London (undergraduate) and Brasenose College, University of Oxford (postgraduate). We can all trade degrees and so on, but so what? So I have some idea about economics, but to see the EU referendum as a matter of economics is to completely avoid the point. Fundamentally, the EU's direction is that of political union. Do we want to be part of this empire they are attempting to construct? That, seems to me, to be one of the central questions, and it is a question of power and politics.
     
  11. Arazi

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 19, 2007

    Posts: 3,718

    Location: North

    Sure was a good read. More should read it.

    I heard earlier Osborne has threatened that he will have to raise taxes, how will he do that when he wont be chancellor if we vote to leave?

    Some desperate stuff coming from the vote in side, it is embarrassing.
     
  12. Nate--IRL--

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 20, 2004

    Posts: 3,498

    Location: Dublin, Ireland

    To Be fair to the EU, they have attempted just this in a limited fashion. Structural funding to the poorer parts of the EU for example. Now I won't say it has been a runaway success, but you find places like Northern Ireland has benefited from EU funding quite a bit, specifically with funding from the PEACE programs.

    Nate
     
  13. Ocean Breeze

    Hitman

    Joined: Jul 1, 2009

    Posts: 716

    Location: Shropshire/Paris

    I can't think of a single way that the EU has disadvantaged me. It's only been beneficial to me; better employment rights, ease of travel, cheaper prices (Using mobiles costs the same no matter what EU country you are in for example) etc etc.

    I have certainly not been affected by immigrants. I barely see any! and I work in Birmingham. The only ones I encounter are the ones that wash my car and they do a good job. I have nothing against them.

    The main threat I face at the moment is my job going to India!
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
  14. smargh

    Associate

    Joined: Dec 29, 2010

    Posts: 74

    Gove said that the recent cable release was concerning getting Turkey into the EU. This is incorrect. The cable was about Visa-free travel, and the same list is already rather extensive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_the_United_Kingdom#Non-visa_nationals

    There were a few other points where he went on a bit of a rant, sidestepping the question, but I didn't write them down. Maybe I'll re-watch it on iPlayer later.

    Overall, at best I felt that he was often inappropriately using media reports to suit his own unrelated or incorrect narrative from a nationalist perspective. At worst he was being a tw*ttish politician telling what could be interpreted as almost-porkies.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
  15. BaronVonDuncs

    Gangster

    Joined: Oct 14, 2009

    Posts: 190

    Location: Southampton UK

    Thanks for calling me a liar this do you?


    [​IMG][/URL][/IMG]
     
  16. v0n

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 8,008

    Location: The Great Lines Of Defence

    It wasn't 410,000 tons in 2002, but that's not important - if you already started let's finish that thought - ten years later, in 2012, UK annual stats reached 628,000 tonnes of fish while Denmark stats dropped to 508,000 tonnes. That year only Spain caught more fish than UK in the entire EU, and for the past 10 years UK somehow managed to be either second largest or third largest fishing industry within EU year after year....
     
  17. Arazi

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 19, 2007

    Posts: 3,718

    Location: North

    Great post, and to echo part of your post, correct, nothing will change for two years, because of a treaty clause, so if the UK leaves we then have two years to negotiate everything.

    I dont think i have heard any of the high ranking remain politicians state that fact.

    So why do all the remain in the EU supporters keep spouting all the scare nonsense, again it is embarrassing, as you have said, they would need a crystal ball.
     
  18. Mulder

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 10, 2004

    Posts: 3,856

    Location: London

    You studied at Harvard but don't know the difference between "your" and "you're"? I don't want to call you a liar, but looking at the evidence.....

    Also, you never responded to our little debate, here and here.
     
  19. Insanties_birth

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 3, 2010

    Posts: 1,345

    For me I honestly just don't know where the conclusion came that we couldn't have an EU like structure (benefits, trade, working together) wiithout all the encroaching anti-democratic sovereignity stealing. Sometimes obviously you give a little to get a little back (trade) but even when it's clear we've stepped too far like not being able to manage tax on a local level, managing migration, controlling our own laws etc. There just isn't a real answer from anyone as to why that is okay or how it would improve. It's sad that we've given up control in these areas to such an extent that we're duty bound to follow them or be penalized when they never should have been given up in the first place.

    I understand there's always the fall back for pro EU voters, cry about the economy, the economy and then shift the subject back to the economy again but there's no real answer for why the EU has developed this way and how we can fix the problems of having no control or safety measures in these regards. Local law, migration and tax matters are sensible for quickly reacting and making sure we make the most out of economic and political matters when they need to be changed. Quite often politics is just a balancing game and you change the rules day to day (like taxes) to make the most sense as and when it's needed but the EU is stifling that sort of control or even ability to make quick responses. Forget the economic argument for just a second and can anyone reasonably answer how that is going to improve? Why it got to that state in the first place and how we can trust it to not become more invasive? Outsourcing democracy is fine when it's mutually beneficial or when you can change it when need be but the EU has no brakes, no controls, no quality level of transparency or measures to stem the tide of what is going on. How can we control or improve that without blind optimism? Everything in the past has shown it's headed the opposite way, outsource democracy to foreign interests in the hope of the better good coming out and when you acknowledge it's not then just keep repeating it's for the better good. Bad policies just swept under the rug to keep plugging the good few
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
  20. StriderX

    Caporegime

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 25,383

    One doesnt need to be great at english to be good at Maths.
     
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