Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

[joeyjojo]

Seems a good time to suggest listening to Radio 4s More or Less yesterday lunch time. It's only ten minutes long but very interesting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07hjvk4

The most striking fact for me is the one about "Brussels makes x% of our laws". The UK has been voted down on 72 laws. Farage himself in 2014 said the UK was voted down on 55 directives. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

What he doesn't mention is that the UK was in agreement on 2466 policies!

It's fine to say "Brussels makes x% of our laws", but suggesting it's a bad thing when the government actually voted for over 97% of them is disgraceful!

What a ******.

 

[StriderX]

Interesting that you've chosen to highlight the negatives of most of those points rather than potential reasons for their existence. There are negatives to them but they haven't just been pulled out of thin air.

What reasons?

We know nothing of the long term effects of vaping, but plenty on smoking.

Seems the EU like to kill people.

 

[Rilot]

Interesting that you've chosen to highlight the negatives of most of those points rather than potential reasons for their existence. There are negatives to them but they haven't just been pulled out of thin air.

OK, here we go then with my comments on their viability.

Tanks can't be bigger than 2ml (the reasoning for this is the disourage chain vaping a large volume of liquid. I vape 10ml per day.)
Advertising banned (to prevent children from being exposed to it)
All products must submit a pre-market report to legislators detailing the device, liquid and it's specs before going on the market. (to ensure all products are licensed and tested before sale. Surely product safety legislation already covers this?)
Liquid for e-cigarettes cannot be of strength greater than 20mg/ml (to reduce the risk of nicotine poisoning)
Refill bottles can only be sold in bottles of 10ml (to reduce the risk of poisoning, again)
Ban on sales to under 18s (good)

Now, the reasoning for them is there but it's still stupid. I can buy a bottle of bleach from Tesco that is 1L but I can't buy e-liquid in a 30ml bottle.

Anyway, not going to argue on the points of the legislation as it's law now anyway and there's nothing to be done about it. I was using it to illustrate how prescriptive directives can be.

 

[PlacidCasual]

The most striking fact for me is the one about "Brussels makes x% of our laws". The UK has been voted down on 72 laws. Farage himself in 2014 said the UK was voted down on 55 directives. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

What he doesn't mention is that the UK was in agreement on 2466 policies!

It's fine to say "Brussels makes x% of our laws", but suggesting it's a bad thing when the government actually voted for over 97% of them is disgraceful!

What a ******.

I guess it's a bit like saying X meets your capacity needs 99% of the time but the 1% when it doesn't is the really important bit. Maybe 2466 policies were unimportant to the UK had no strategic impact but the 72/55 were key and had material impact on the UK well the stats don't tell the whole truth.

For example we vetoed the Eurozone financial transaction tax but the EU ignored us and applied it through EU institutions anyway. I have no idea what the 72/55 are but they may have been important which is why we opposed them.

The homeopathic renegotiation has probably given up more than it has gained, further integration is inevitable and given general European disquiet Brussels will find a way of avoiding treaty change to do this. We should leave to put an absolute limit on our involvement in EU integration because the risks of remaining, rarely discussed, are that we will inexorably be drawn into something we don't want and is not to our benefit.

 

[Errol]

 

[Errol]

 

[McBain]

Odds shortening on exit every day, it was 3/1 a few weeks ago now it's as short as 5/4.

 

[StriderX]

Odds shortening on exit every day, it was 3/1 a few weeks ago now it's as short as 5/4.

This could essentially be people looking at it as a good bet even if it doesnt happen.

But if some people who may have been turned off voting exit, they might see the money and vote out to win.

 

[Chris Wilson]

What are the implications of leaving the EU on VAT charged, or chargeable in our dealings with the remaining EU countries? Thanks.

 

[elmuzzy66.]

Right now in the EU Germany makes stuff, France grows stuff and we are the bankers. If we leave I see the Germans taking over as financial hub of the EU to our detriment. I will vote to stay in as we can always leave in the future if things don't improve. Leaving and then joining would be far harder.

Tin foil hat movement. Could all this be just a roose for bankers to make a killing with the pound. I think the in vote has always been the final result.

 

[Burnsy2023]

We have absolute control in changing our immigration policy to make it easier for skilled Jamacian nurses to enter and work in the UK. This has nothing to do with the EU.

We will also have the power to deport EU nationals likely to represent a genuine and serious threat to public policy or security, which is part of what DC recently negotiated and agreed with the EU.

 

[antijoke]

Is there any information out there on any other countries which are going to hold similar votes in the future for leaving the EU?

What I would be interested in knowing is which countries could have the possibility of leaving the EU in the future too.

 

[EddScott]

David Cameron's visiting Gibraltar today. Lets see what he has to say for himself. Locally its going to be an overwhelmingly "remain" vote, but I guess the main thing we'd like to hear is what assurances/actions will be taken if our neighbours use a brexit result in the way the Spanish Government's rhetoric is already suggesting.

Has there been any question of how Gib will be affected with the leave result?

My mum is off to Gib on the 23rd to see my Bro. Have warned her not to set foot on the mainland just in case she needs a visa to get back in

What are the implications of leaving the EU on VAT charged, or chargeable in our dealings with the remaining EU countries? Thanks.

I'd like to know this too. From a purely selfish POV, I buy a fair bit of RC gear from Germany. Used to be Japan all the way but strong Yen and customs appearing to be more on the ball have made buying JDM goods expensive once landed. Be a bit of a bind to start paying customs on stuff purchased from the EU.

 

[Mr Jack]

Even the IPSOS Mori telephone poll is now showing a lead for Leave: 53%-47%. There's been a methodological change since the last poll which accounts for some of the shift but still, all the polls are now pointing to a Leave win. I really think we're going to Brexit now.

 

[MookJong]

Is there any information out there on any other countries which are going to hold similar votes in the future for leaving the EU?

What I would be interested in knowing is which countries could have the possibility of leaving the EU in the future too.

If you look at the figures, UK, Germany and France are really the big players in the EU. I think for a lot of the smaller countries it makes far less sense for them to leave really. There is talk that the Netherlands and France are not happy but I don't think anything on the scale that the UK has been whipped up into.

 

[McBain]

This could essentially be people looking at it as a good bet even if it doesnt happen.

But if some people who may have been turned off voting exit, they might see the money and vote out to win.

Well yeah, that goes without saying. The odds reflect the market, considering they were that long only a short while ago suggest more and more people are slapping money on.

 

[Danthus]

We will also have the power to deport EU nationals likely to represent a genuine and serious threat to public policy or security, which is part of what DC recently negotiated and agreed with the EU.

What you completely ignored there is why and how these people get into the country.

 

[scorza]

Even the IPSOS Mori telephone poll is now showing a lead for Leave: 53%-47%. There's been a methodological change since the last poll which accounts for some of the shift but still, all the polls are now pointing to a Leave win. I really think we're going to Brexit now.

Yeah right - a methodical change to give Leave the lead to encourage pro-EU voters to get out and vote. Just like how the polls at the general election predicted a Lab-SNP coalition to persuade people in England to vote Tory.

 

[antijoke]

If you look at the figures, UK, Germany and France are really the big players in the EU. I think for a lot of the smaller countries it makes far less sense for them to leave really. There is talk that the Netherlands and France are not happy but I don't think anything on the scale that the UK has been whipped up into.

So, there is only really France and the Netherlands, that may have a vote out similar to us?

If we were to stay in the EU, what would the likely effects be then of say either of these leaving? What I am asking is probably something that can't be answered, but as it's an "in it for the longhaul" type of deal I would like to think of the future of the EU that we would be voting to stay in, so whats down the remain road for the Union?

 

[John40]

Even the IPSOS Mori telephone poll is now showing a lead for Leave: 53%-47%. There's been a methodological change since the last poll which accounts for some of the shift but still, all the polls are now pointing to a Leave win. I really think we're going to Brexit now.

No way large enough lead to take into account all the ditherers who will vote IN, needs to be towards 20 points in my opinion.

Makes no odds anyway as Cameron has said he won't take us out and he won't.