Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain a member of the European Union

    Votes: 794 45.1%

  • Leave the European Union

    Votes: 965 54.9%
  • Total voters
    1,759
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scorza said:
There you have it - according the pro-EU side, our financial arrangements with the EU are exactly like buying something from Argos :D Makes you wonder why we need pages and pages of treaties written by hordes of lawyers when George Osborne could just get the national credit card out and pay for it that way.
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The concept of a rebate is the same whether it's buying something from Argos or giving money to the EU. Do you understand what economic principals are? They're ideas that can be applied to multiple scenarios.
 
Amp34 said:
It's also interesting to see how so many on the leave side seem to be trying to blame her death on them losing, rather than the far right oriented murderer for her death, possibly causing some to vote remain rather than leave.

Not far off victim blaming tbh.
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And those fanatics will remain in the country regardless of the outcome.
 
scorza said:
Why don't you just admit you don't know what you're talking about? Suggest you look up the European Court of Justice (which is very much an EU institution) and then have a look at some of the rulings it makes on human rights grounds: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tain-deporting-murders-rapists-and-violent-c/
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No scorza. You don't know what you're talking about. You claimed "ECJ says we can't deport terror suspect A". That's not what European Court of Justice is for. That's ECHR's job. Abu Hamza ruling was ECHR, all related cases were ruled by ECHR.

You then throw an article my way, as a proof of "rulings ECJ makes on human rights" and you don't even read what you post. The entire article makes only one (anecdotal) mention of ECJ as a court supporting (in general) the body of legislative work only referred to by the person behind the anecdote as "the European law".
 
That vid from the Liverpool professor was very informative and it's speeches like this the public has needed not all the same old crap both parties have been spueing out over and over again.

Though again the speech is all about the economic side of things and nothing about migration. It sounds to me like it will be a lot of hard work for the gov to if we do come out but ah, they can start earning there expenses/money.
 
What ever happens in this vote it looks like just under half of the voters will be unhappy.

Whoever wins they there triumph will be short lived. Unless the polls are drastically wrong this is a very divided country.

Winning a referendum by a few points will not solve the UK's attitude towards Europe in or out.

Eventually we will be doing this agian, much like Scotland were a second vote is inevitable.
 
The Mad Rapper said:
And those fanatics will remain in the country regardless of the outcome.
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Unfortunately... :(

Hopefully after the referendum they will have to move back into the shadows again, rather than start moving into the light like they seem to be at the moment.
 
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So, if remain win, which now seems likely, what will happen to the likes of Boris, Gove, IDS etc?
With the nastiness of this campaign from both sides, I can't see them all carrying on as if nothing happened, but I suppose the Cons are going to want to put on a united front etc...
One of the things I have despised about this whole affair, is being on the same side as people like IDS. Much the same as I would feel if it was Cam or Osbourne.
 
Third Opinion said:
What ever happens in this vote it looks like just under half of the voters will be unhappy.

Whoever wins they there triumph will be short lived. Unless the polls are drastically wrong this is a very divided country.

Winning a referendum by a few points will not solve the UK's attitude towards Europe in or out.

Eventually we will be doing this agian, much like Scotland were a second vote is inevitable.
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Going to be a few people who may well be on the receiving end of a bit of unpleasantness after Friday.Seen a few posts in various places telling people not to forget who their friends and enemy's are.
 
sprite1275 said:
That vid from the Liverpool professor was very informative and it's speeches like this the public has needed not all the same old crap both parties have been spueing out over and over again.

Though again the speech is all about the economic side of things and nothing about migration. It sounds to me like it will be a lot of hard work for the gov to if we do come out but ah, they can start earning there expenses/money.
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It's very difficult to make a fact-based point on immigration without coming across like you are dismissing people's concerns. Pointing out that immigration is a net positive economically doesn't counter what people 'know' (perceive) or 'feel' about the issue.

It's irrelevant that immigration is a net positive if all someone sees in their local area is unemployment and Polish shops - and making the argument that all the issues of deprivation, low pay, lack of quality housing are all government failings is really difficult if you've been the party of government for six years.
 
The Mad Rapper said:
Out of curiosity, do any of you (on either side) really believe you are going to change the minds of your counter parties? Or do you just like arguing with each other?
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I still love this article in The New Yorker. It's entitled 'I don't want to be right' and it's a fascinating read IMO.

It looks at anti-vaxxers and climate change skeptics. No amount of 'facts' will change their opinion because admitting their wrong would invalidate them as people.
 
The Mad Rapper said:
Out of curiosity, do any of you (on either side) really believe you are going to change the minds of your counter parties? Or do you just like arguing with each other?
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For me it's never really been about changing other's minds so no I don't. I came here to educate myself more than anything and I have learned a lot more than when I started and was initially just hating the EU based on somewhat incorrect informaton and more tabloid focused news.

Now I've changed from leave to remain and back to leave based on reconfirming different issues and facts but overall just focusing on my views rather than others (but of course taking those on board). I think there is definitely room to convince others but you have to remember, people on this forum haven't acted very diplomatic very often. Frequent insults, disregard of some others opinions and lack of willingness to concede points has led to some hostility that has ended up making other sides simply dig in there trenches. You don't convince people by being condascending and disregarding there views. So I feel there was definitely opportunity to convince others, I've seen a few say they've switched (not loads but a few) and more could have changed if there was a lower level of hostility and condascending behaviour. I'm still half and half on my view. I respect the economic argument and the sovereignity argument but convincing others on big issues is bound to be a little slow.
 
Third Opinion said:
What ever happens in this vote it looks like just under half of the voters will be unhappy.

Whoever wins they there triumph will be short lived. Unless the polls are drastically wrong this is a very divided country.

Winning a referendum by a few points will not solve the UK's attitude towards Europe in or out.

Eventually we will be doing this agian, much like Scotland were a second vote is inevitable.
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Yep, a highly entertaining ****storm is pretty much guaranteed.
 
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