Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain a member of the European Union

    Votes: 794 45.1%

  • Leave the European Union

    Votes: 965 54.9%
  • Total voters
    1,759
Status
Not open for further replies.
Mr Jack said:
Yes, zero chance. Can you imagine a British Prime Minister standing up and saying to the British people that we were surrendering our right to independent military action? Can you?

It's scaremongering nonsense from Leave, once again.
Click to expand...

Except that it isn't. If you really can't see that then you need to do some digging around because the clues are everywhere. Remain is NOT the way forward.
 
deuse said:
You mad?

"EU member states are each required to adopt a value added tax that complies with the EU VAT code. Different rates of VAT apply in different EU member states, ranging from 17 to 27%. The total VAT collected by member states is used as part of the calculation to determine what each state contributes to the "EU's budget"
Click to expand...

Did you read what I wrote? As I said: did you not notice Brown/Darling cutting VAT to 15% to stimulate our economy, and then Cameron/Osborne hiking it to 20%? There are some rules about how we can set our VAT rates, these do not constitute "control". As in so, so, so many things our Government has far more power and influence over these things than the EU. VAT rates are not set by the EU, they're set by our government.

It's a EU thing. We can drop it once we leave.
Click to expand...

The idea we would drop VAT - which we had before we joined the EU and has been the Tory's favourite tax to increase - if we left the EU is for the fairies.
 
Mr Jack said:
Did you read what I wrote? As I said: did you not notice Brown/Darling cutting VAT to 15% to stimulate our economy, and then Cameron/Osborne hiking it to 20%? There are some rules about how we can set our VAT rates, these do not constitute "control". As in so, so, so many things our Government has far more power and influence over these things than the EU. VAT rates are not set by the EU, they're set by our government.



The idea we would drop VAT - which we had before we joined the EU and has been the Tory's favourite tax to increase - if we left the EU is for the fairies.
Click to expand...

Really can we set VAT to 10%?
 
scorza said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Scots_Army Once we enter into a full political union with the EU then the British Army will go the same way as the Royal Scots Army. Eurocorps is already the standing army of the EU - they are commanded by a Lieutenant General and have 1,000 full time troops. You don't need a Lt. Gen. for 1,000 troops, they're preparing to be the single command structure for the EU Army.
Click to expand...

That's not a source backing up your assertion that "The EU Army is going to replace, not compliment the British Army." I'd like a source that states that any proposals would include what you have suggested.

George Hincapie said:
Because in a multinational force, assets are split and commanded by an international structure. What I suspect will happen is that eventually our assets would be spread to the four winds, with the infrastructure assets being purchased between countries (so all contribute to the cost of an aircraft carrier for example), so getting together a force large enough with our own assets to move them to theatre and support and sustain will be impossible without EU agreement. What happens when our intended action is contrary to the EU position? We'd be buggered.

Retaining full control and ownership of all military assets at all times and refusing to contribute in any way to any EU military structure or asset acquisition programme is the only way to guarantee our ability to act when we need to.
Click to expand...

How is this different from any other multi-national military structure such as NATO or the UN? Why would it have to be different?
 
Uther said:
Well surely you have to admit that constitutes 'some' control?
Click to expand...

Yes, there's some control; the control that we agreed to in an international treaty. The rules weren't imposed on us from high, they were mutually agreed to prevent one EU country from competing with another on VAT rates in a race to the bottom that harms all.

But since VAT rates are highly unlikely to drop below 15%, and have been above 17.5% since 1991 (excepting a temporary stimulus package introduced in 2008/9) I don't actually think that a 15% floor makes much difference. And, yes, there are also rules about zero-rated products but as Osborne showed with the Tampon Tax it's relatively easy to bend these if needs be.
 
Want to know why the economic forecasts are bleak if we leave?
Here's a genuine, independent, expert view on the EU from one of the UK's leading EU law experts and how things will really be if we leave.

He cuts through the BS from both sides.
There's some interesting stuff about sovereignty near the top, since people have been banging on about that - the ultimate sovereign body in the UK is our Parliament.
He explains what a single market really is - the most advanced trading market in the world - if we wanted to set up trade deals on our own, manufacturers would have to set up a different production line for each country because each country has different standards, banned materials, different safety standards etc - and vice versa for them exporting to us. The EU has a single set of standards, so everyone in it can trade freely, requiring only a single production line and countries outside only have to make one set of goods for us.
The agreeing tarriffs part is easy - it's all the legal matters that take years - he reckons ten or more.

https://www.facebook.com/Universityo...7/?pnref=story
 
If I was Cameron I'd be fighting to stay in too, think of all the extra work him and his government will have to undertake when it's no longer being done in Brussels.
 
Mr Jack said:
Did you read what I wrote? As I said: did you not notice Brown/Darling cutting VAT to 15% to stimulate our economy, and then Cameron/Osborne hiking it to 20%? There are some rules about how we can set our VAT rates, these do not constitute "control". As in so, so, so many things our Government has far more power and influence over these things than the EU. VAT rates are not set by the EU, they're set by our government.
Click to expand...

As long it's set between 15-27% we are ok and the EU won't find us.
If a UK government wants to set VAT to 5% and the EU says n. Then that's control.

We never had VAT before 1973.
 
Any of the Remain crowd got anything to say about Mulder's earlier post, namely this one:

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=29658782&postcount=5882

Or is it just more, to use your word du jour, 'divisive' scaremongering?

Because for me, it says everything anybody needs to know about the ultimate aims of the EU as an organisation and is a major reason I'm voting out ...
 
Burnsy2023 said:
That's not a source backing up your assertion that "The EU Army is going to replace, not compliment the British Army." I'd like a source that states that any proposals would include what you have suggested.
Click to expand...

Almost every article I've read on the EU Army talks about integration and not co-operation. What do you think that means?
 
scorza said:
Almost every article I've read on the EU Army talks about integration and not co-operation. What do you think that means?
Click to expand...

Aye, its probably going to be a pooling of resources under EU command. We'll find out on June 24 when the report is published. Conveniently just after the result...
 
deuse said:
As long it's set between 15-27% we are ok and the EU won't find us.
Click to expand...

That's not correct, the EU rules our government decided to agree to set minimum rates only not maximum rates.

If a UK government wants to set VAT to 5% and the EU says n. Then that's control.
Click to expand...

When will the UK government ever want to set VAT to 5%? Oh yes, never. The idea that not being able to do things we were never going to do anyway constitutes a meaningful limitation on us is nonsense. Our government chooses the rate our VAT is set at - as Darling and Osborne proved when they set our VAT rate - and, yes, there are limitations, those limitations do not constitute "control".

The EU cannot change our VAT rates unless our government chooses to allow it to, it does not have that power. Our government does have the power to change VAT rates. Therefore our government has control of VAT rates where the EU doesn't. The EU can't even change the minimum rates we agreed to without our further say so.

We never had VAT before 1973.
Click to expand...

No, we had Purchase Tax instead. VAT replaced it and, frankly, is a better method of taxation.
 
Last edited:
Mulder said:
Presumably these dozen retired senior military leaders are also tinfoil hat wearing loonies? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Do they read the same stuff as Scorza?

I will admit that retired senior military leaders tend to always fear the worst military scenario, even if its a stretch. Chill your bean before, I never called them loons, i just comment on the quality of articles scorza tends to quote and read.

Plenty of military leaders also want to stay in the eu.

Does naming people that share the same view as scorza, add credibility to the articles he reads?
 
Mr Jack said:
That's not correct, the EU rules our government decided to agree to set minimum rates only not maximum rates.



When will the UK government ever want to set VAT to 5%? Oh yes, never.
Click to expand...

You can argue that, the fact is if they wanted to they couldn't. I agree VAT isn't going anywhere even if we leave, nor is austerity, we can't afford it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom