Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain a member of the European Union

    Votes: 794 45.1%

  • Leave the European Union

    Votes: 965 54.9%
  • Total voters
    1,759
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Skunkworks said:
Is nationalism bad, Zethor?
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In the modern world, Nationalism lead to the most horrific atrocities executed by mankind (German Nationalism, Japanese Nationalism, Chinese Nationalism and Russian Nationalism).

Historically, Nationalism had some notable benefits when the Empires disintegrated, such as promoting unity among people. Today, it's outdated at best and cancerous/dangerous at worst.
 
Zethor said:
In the modern world, Nationalism lead to the most horrific atrocities executed by mankind (German Nationalism, Japanese Nationalism, Chinese Nationalism and Russian Nationalism).

Historically, Nationalism had some notable benefits when the Empires disintegrated, such as promoting unity among people. Today, it's outdated at best and cancerous/dangerous at worst.
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They also led to the greatest advances in mankind, sometimes its worth it and we dont need the population anyway.
 
It's hardly any surprise many British are showing more Nationalism these days, with so many immigrants coming here that have, nor wish to have any true pride or affinity to England. Not that I see anything whatever wrong in Nationalism, it is an inherent trait for nations to have this. The "no individual nations" desires of the EU try to make it a dirty word, whereas it's really a notion of pride and cohesion.
 
Zethor said:
In the modern world, Nationalism lead to the most horrific atrocities executed by mankind (German Nationalism, Japanese Nationalism, Chinese Nationalism and Russian Nationalism).

Historically, Nationalism had some notable benefits when the Empires disintegrated, such as promoting unity among people. Today, it's outdated at best and cancerous/dangerous at worst.
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So why does each country fly its flag and you see endless amounts flown in football stadiums or motorsport events, say F1. If that is why it is so outdated. You see endless American flags in all their sports stadiums and schools if it is so bad.
 
Skunkworks said:
Would it be fair to say you have no nationalistic tendencies?
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Correct. I'm not even a huge EU fan, I believe all advanced democracies should amplify the integration and cooperation processes and they should use their influence to guide the rest of the countries in a similar direction.


StriderX said:
They also led to the greatest advances in mankind, sometimes its worth it and we dont need the population anyway.
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No loss of life has ever advanced anything. Humans are very similar genetically and they are capable of similar intellectual feats across all nations and cultures. The rate of progress is the fastest when people have the freedom to express themselves and when they have time to use their creativity.
 
Zethor said:
I said it lead to the rise of Nationalism which manifests itself as support for Brexit in England.
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Your connections are tenuous at best. Euroscepticism for most is driven by the EU doing what it does best, ignoring the people, gathering more power for its unelected bureaucratic elite, adding more and more countries that the existing block don't want, wasting money etc. Basically people don't want to give up all their powers and become a posting of an EU superstate, but they continue regardless. You can ignore these factors all you like, but I'm certain they're more important to the 60%+ of leave voters in this poll rather than your assertion it's got to do with the financial crisis or nationalism. Again I think you're just trying to smear leave voters by saying their nationalist, in the most negative sense of the word.

Zethor said:
We don't live in a direct democracy, we live in a representative democracy. That's how things work in a representative democracy, you elect people who know better and they make decisions for you. Do you think a direct democracy would be a more suitable system?
Funny you should mention North Korea, they have recently endorsed someone for the US Presidency, a first in their history. He happens to be a fellow Brexiteer.
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It's a referendum, the whole point of that is that our elected leaders have given the people the choice on this issue. A referendum is an example of direct democracy.....

There you go again, 'North Korea likes trump, trump likes Brexit, so anyone who votes Brexit is in bed with North Korea!" With arguments like that no wonder the leave majority keeps going up here.
 
Zethor said:
In the modern world, Nationalism lead to the most horrific atrocities executed by mankind (German Nationalism, Japanese Nationalism, Chinese Nationalism and Russian Nationalism).

Historically, Nationalism had some notable benefits when the Empires disintegrated, such as promoting unity among people. Today, it's outdated at best and cancerous/dangerous at worst.
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You are confusing nationalism with imperialism. From Google:

Nationalism - patriotic feeling, principles or efforts.

Imperialism - a type of advocacy of empire. Its name originated from the Latin word "imperium", which means to rule over large territories. Imperialism is "a policy of extending a country's power and influence through colonization, use of military force, or other means"

Rule over large territories, now which unelected elite are trying to do that? ;)
 
V F said:
So why does each country fly its flag and you see endless amounts flown in football stadiums or motorsport events, say F1. If that is why it is so outdated. You see endless American flags in all their sports stadiums and schools if it is so bad.
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You confuse Nationalism with Patriotism, there's a big difference between them. An important characteristic of Nationalism is the superiority of your nation, compared to others. This is why Nationalists can't swallow the idea that an English vote is equal to the Polish vote. Patriotism is a passive expression of love/devotion for a country, it always focus on the country itself, never other countries.

In short, a Nationalist will paint the American flag on the door of a Mexican restaurant while a Patriot will paint it on his house/business or carry it to the stadium.
 
Zethor said:
You confuse Nationalism with Patriotism, there's a big difference between them. An important characteristic of Nationalism is the superiority of your nation, compared to others. This is why Nationalists can't swallow the idea that an English vote is equal to the Polish vote. Patriotism is a passive expression of love/devotion for a country, it always focus on the country itself, never other countries.

In short, a Nationalist will paint the American flag on the door of a Mexican restaurant while a Patriot will paint it on his house/business or carry it to the stadium.
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Sorry, but this is bull****.
 
Mulder said:
You are confusing nationalism with imperialism. From Google:

Nationalism - patriotic feeling, principles or efforts.

Imperialism - a type of advocacy of empire. Its name originated from the Latin word "imperium", which means to rule over large territories. Imperialism is "a policy of extending a country's power and influence through colonization, use of military force, or other means"

Rule over large territories, now which unelected elite are trying to do that? ;)
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I'm not confusing anything. I suggest you read up on what Nationalism is, how it's been expressed through history and who its proponents are in the present.

As for the EU, it's a club, you obey the rules while you're in it and you can leave at any given time. No connection whatsoever to Imperialism and you should probably read up on it as well.
 
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