Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (March Poll)

[Schlong&Stable]

We just don't belong in it
Germany, France, Italy Poland etc tend to agree on a lot of things, they are European. We are not. You can guarantee the only reason eu want us in is we net contribute. If we didn't, and caused as much fuss as we do you can bet they would prefer us out

Britain is absolutely a European nation. And I say that as someone who has no interest in the EU project. Look at our culture, history and politics: its all distinctly European.

There is no European consensus, which is why we're seeing the rise of euroskeptic parties across Europe. There may be agreement amongst the European political elite, but that would include our own leadership who have bought into it. So we're by no means unique in that regard.

The EU wants us to remain in for a whole range of reasons, but I doubt our budget contributions are a major reason. It has far more to do with prestige and influence than money.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Britain is absolutely a European nation. And I say that as someone who has no interest in the EU project. Look at our culture, history and politics: its all distinctly European.

There is no European consensus, which is why we're seeing the rise of euroskeptic parties across Europe. There may be agreement amongst the European political elite, but that would include our own leadership who have bought into it. So we're by no means unique in that regard.

The EU wants us to remain in for a whole range of reasons, but I doubt our budget contributions are a major reason. It has far more to do with prestige and influence than money.

Very sensible post.

If you asked an Italian/Greek/French/whatever what they are, they would call themselves Italian/Greek/French/whatever not European. To everyone else in the world outside of Europe, we are European, except maybe places with very close cultural links to Britain (Aus, South Africa). Really, it is stupid to make decisions based on it anyway. You are not signing up to change your nationality, you are deciding on whether the positives outweigh the negatives.

Whether you consider yourself European or not shouldn't come into it. that tribal mentality should have been left with your spear and stones.

 

[deuse]

Britain is absolutely a European nation..

Talk for yourself please. I'm English.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

Talk for yourself please. I'm English.

I thought you were American when it suited you because you hated Thatcher's England, ran away and became an immigrant

 

[scorza]

Very sensible post.

If you asked an Italian/Greek/French/whatever what they are, they would call themselves Italian/Greek/French/whatever not European. To everyone else in the world outside of Europe, we are European, except maybe places with very close cultural links to Britain (Aus, South Africa). Really, it is stupid to make decisions based on it anyway. You are not signing up to change your nationality, you are deciding on whether the positives outweigh the negatives.

Whether you consider yourself European or not shouldn't come into it. that tribal mentality should have been left with your spear and stones.

I've never been asked if I'm European when I've been abroad - it's always "Are you British?", or occasionally American or Australian. Again it seems to me that the stay camp's main argument is to diminish the UK's heritage and prestige that we're respected for around the world.

 

[Skunkworks]

The in camp is getting slaughtered on QT

Did you notice how quickly the guy mentioning the one-sided reporting of migrants got shut down? Then cuts straight to over-emotional "let them all in" hippy.

~32:30 http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b072fpn3/question-time-03032016

 

[Burnsy2023]

I've never been asked if I'm European when I've been abroad - it's always "Are you British?", or occasionally American or Australian.

How other's perceive you is different to self identity. Most people looking at you will think you're either European or North American, so asking that question wouldn't be all that useful.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

I've never been asked if I'm European when I've been abroad - it's always "Are you British?", or occasionally American or Australian.

Normally people ask 'where are you from?'/'what are you?' and the point i was making is that no European nation would reply 'Europe or 'I'm European'. If they do, it is for the benefit of the person asking because they likely don't know the country you actually identify with.

Your 'them and us' mentality is why you didn't grasp my point

 

[scorza]

Normally people ask 'where are you from?'/'what are you?' and the point i was making is that no European nation would reply 'Europe or 'I'm European'. If they do, it is for the benefit of the person asking because they likely don't know the country you actually identify with.

Your 'them and us' mentality is why you didn't grasp my point

They probably don't reply "I'm European" for the same reason why they don't reply "I'm from planet earth" - to be more accurate.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Aye, it's funny how pro-EUers will tell us if we pull out how we'll lose out on the best foreign employees because they'll be put of by a Visa process (basically filling out a form) and will just look for jobs in the europe as it's less hassle.

It isn't just 'basically filling out a form'. Our immigration process is actually fairly tough - ironically its tougher than the Australian system everyone seems to think we need. If you are, say, an American citizen who just fancies living and working in the UK then you cannot simply rock up here and live, form or no form. There is no skills visa with points in the same way that there is for say Australia or Canada where you can get in simply for being educated enough.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

They probably don't reply "I'm European" for the same reason why they don't reply "I'm from planet earth" - to be more accurate.

Not true, when someone asks me what i am, i tell them i am Italian because that is what i identify with when someone refers to my origins, as i was brought up by my grandmother and parents (with my grandmother and mother speaking only Italian to me). If they ask me why i am so dark skinned i tell them i am also Filipino but if they stare at me dumbly i then tell them i am part Oriental. I have lived in this country my whole life though and despite not being brought up in a home filled with British culture, i sometimes tell people i am from Britain because that is where i am from. Not once have i ever identified myself as European or Oriental though. Nor have i ever met anyone from either side of my family who does so.

Your 'probably's don't weigh up to first hand experience

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Talk for yourself please. I'm English.

I am talking for reality.

I am opposed to the EU project and any form of European federalisation. But to deny that we're a European nation is utterly ahistorical and downright stupid.

And I say that as an ethnic nationalist. So that should put in context how bizarre your notion of national identity is.

 

[scorza]

Not true, when someone asks me what i am, i tell them i am Italian because that is what i identify with when someone refers to my origins, as i was brought up by my grandmother and parents (with my grandmother and mother speaking only Italian to me). If they ask me why i am so dark skinned i tell them i am also Filipino but if they stare at me dumbly i then tell them i am part Oriental. I have lived in this country my whole life though and despite not being brought up in a home filled with British culture, i sometimes tell people i am from Britain because that is where i am from. Not once have i ever identified myself as European or Oriental though. Nor have i ever met anyone from either side of my family who does so.

Your 'probably's don't weigh up to first hand experience

So do you have British or Italian citizenship (or both)?

 

[Gilly]

I am talking for reality.

I am opposed to the EU project and any form of European federalisation. But to deny that we're a European nation is utterly ahistorical and downright stupid.

And I say that as an ethnic nationalist. So that should put in context how bizarre your notion of national identity is.

Really? I'm surprised that any Brit follows ethnic nationalism given our history.

Anyway, in my mind I'm not European and I'm not British. Depending who is asking I identify as being from England, Yorkshire or Leeds.

 

[Tunney]

I don't see my identity as being one-dimensional. I'm a Westerner, I'm European, I'm British, I'm English, I'm a Londoner, I'm a Tottenham Hotspur fan, I'm a gamer, I'm a geek...

 

[estebanrey]

It isn't just 'basically filling out a form'. Our immigration process is actually fairly tough - ironically its tougher than the Australian system everyone seems to think we need. If you are, say, an American citizen who just fancies living and working in the UK then you cannot simply rock up here and live, form or no form. There is no skills visa with points in the same way that there is for say Australia or Canada where you can get in simply for being educated enough.

You've quote mined and therefore missed the point of my post.

You can't argue on the one hand say pulling out of the EU will create a brain drain because the best people will be put off by going through a visa process despite being attracted to our language/having family here/getting a higher wage, whilst at the same time saying businesses here will be prepared to spend millions and go through a lot more work to move out of the country to avoid paying tariifs.

 

[scorza]

I don't see my identity as being one-dimensional. I'm a Westerner, I'm European, I'm British, I'm English, I'm a Londoner, I'm a Tottenham Hotspur fan, I'm a gamer, I'm a geek...

So if you're abroad and someone asks you where you a from, what is your response?

 

[Avenged7Fold]

So do you have British or Italian citizenship (or both)?

Does the status of my citizenship make a difference to what i identify with?

If you must know, after looking into it very recently (actually because i saw a thread on here) I have both. I am also in the process of looking into citizenship of the Philippines considering everything going on in the world. I was originally on my fathers diplomatic passport when i was younger despite being born here.

So if you're abroad and someone asks you where you a from, what is your response?

I assume he will say he is from England or Britain or the United Kingdom rather than saying he is English/British/European because when you are asking where are you from you are asking for a place. If the other person was a villager stuck in the middle of no where and did not know the place, he would probably broaden it to Europe.

 

[scorza]

Does the status of my citizenship make a difference to what i identify with?

If you must know, after looking into it very recently (actually because i saw a thread on here) I have both. I am also in the process of looking into citizenship of the Philippines considering everything going on in the world. I was originally on my fathers diplomatic passport when i was younger despite being born here.

I think it does actually - if you're a British citizen, live in the UK and have done all your life and someone asks you where you're from and you reply Italy, that's dishonest in my book. As you have both, it's slightly different.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

I think it does actually - if you're a British citizen, live in the UK and have done all your life and someone asks you where you're from and you reply Italy, that's dishonest in my book. As you have both, it's slightly different.

Brought up Italian, lived there for a bit when i was older and was my first language. I am culturally more Italian than i am English and hit many cultural walls even going through school. Where does that put me?

Your disagreeing in semantics but you cant deny how someone identifies themselves because that is an opinion. I said if someone asks where i am from i said i say i am from Britain but if someone asks me what i am i reply Italian.

when someone asks me what i am, i tell them i am Italian because that is what i identify with when someone refers to my origins, as i was brought up by my grandmother and parents (with my grandmother and mother speaking only Italian to me). If they ask me why i am so dark skinned i tell them i am also Filipino but if they stare at me dumbly i then tell them i am part Oriental. I have lived in this country my whole life though and despite not being brought up in a home filled with British culture, i sometimes tell people i am from Britain because that is where i am from

Not sure why you would think i am dishonest after explaining the above. You can at most disagree on my definition of where i a from but if believe the above because of those reasons, does it make me dishonest?

For many people, possibly like yourself, where you are from and what you are, are the same thing but for me it is different. You are from a place, however you are not a place.