Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (March Poll)
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Turkey will be in in under 5 years. Under 3 if they pull their finger out.
Soldato
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To do some extrapolating of my own, it was 40 years before we got a ref, so let’s say another 40 years before we get to review it again. That covers your long-term several times.
Associate
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Doesn't really make a difference. I smirk at the people with shallow view points too, i.e. that if we can't trust the politicians we have to run the UK then why should we trust them to have a huge say in the EU? So regardless of your smirking the point stands that it's better to have incompetents have less on there plate than juggling fifty plates and mucking up decisions on an even grander scale because they have more subjects to deal with, less control and are more distracted from the tasks they should be dealing with at home (but might bungle up and not deal with properly when they have to try and wrestle the decisions away from the EU instead).
So arguably you can make jokes about the politicians getting unfounded faith just for leaving the EU but the argument isn't really a smart one when analysed anyway as we wouldn't want them juggling far more than they should and keeping there eye away from the UK issues (or being hog tied away from them by the EU who have there own bad decisions as well). I hope we can start pinning down some more real numbers from the politicians and companies proclaiming how bad it will be for them to leave the EU though. Scaremongering is going on at either side and I'd really like to see some actual figures as to why we'd be so damaged by leaving the EU. Obviously it'll be negative but if it's not too negative a down scale then it could be worth it. Don't fancy Turkey joining the EU as we already have enough issues with extremism.
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I have no problem with that, how often do you want to ask the same question?
And since neither of those events are just strictly time dependant, they depend on conditions being met, how long that is is a little mute
So in the example of Turkey joining the EU, as Kindai says, it could be in under 5 yrs, but it depends on them resolving the issues that are stopping them joining currently, and I think they will take a longer time frame to sort out. But once (if) they do, what's the issue with them joining?
Soldato
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Simply pointing out that you offer little more than "better the devil you know" dressed-up in weasel words.
Not at all, since I don't think of it as 'the devil' anyway.
I believe in the EU experiment and would want to go even further to becoming a federal conglomerate, the United States of Europe
There are issues, of course there are, we are separate countries coming together, its going to be turbulent..but this is a long, long term project and I'm not ready to throw the towel in at this stage.
Soldato
Only my personal opinion here. But the bigger the organization (read EU empire here) the more corrupt, unaccountable and unmanageable it tends to become (I've even worked for a couple of global companies like that). Until one day it implodes (or explodes ... depending on your view point). So I'd rather get out now before the brown stuff really hits the fan. Lets make our own way in the world. That's what I say.
If we do leave the EU, what happens to all the highly skilled French/German/Spanish/Polish/etc workers already working and living here? do they get sent back, are they allowed to stay? does anyone know what would actually happen?
Just curious as I have a hell of a lot of colleagues from these countries, who I work with daily.
Just curious as I have a hell of a lot of colleagues from these countries, who I work with daily.
Soldato
They have already said they can stay.
The answer to both is not until pre-defined conditions are met, at which point neither is a scary prospect.
Gordon Brown set down some very sensible rules on joining the Euro (which were never met) and the conditions for joining the EU include lots of rules about human rights and economic worthiness.
Caporegime
If we do vote brexit, have we got a way of ceasing freedom of movement straight away or would we just have an insane 2 years of wave after wave flooding in while they can?
No, freedom of movement will not stop until negotiations are complete and enacted (assuming that is renegotiated).
Soldato
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For some reason I'm thinking of Snoop Doggy Dogg.
Caporegime
In fact, of course, anti-EU feeling is strongest in areas with the lowest immigration and lowest in areas with the most immigration. This map shows UKIP support rather than anti-EU feeling directly but the two are closely linked:
(source)
This is such a depressing situation, one which seems destined to provide no change. Fear of things getting worst will surely triumph over any hope of things improving.
Things are not helped by how ill equipped we all generally are to truly make this decision. But education is clearly there to help you function within the system, with little interest in people understanding the system itself. We have our MPs but clearly they will deceive/lie/bend the truth to serve their own personal agendas. We can trust nothing they say.
Media likewise generally has it's own reasons to be shaping our decision. They too should be ignored.
It is worth looking into the actions which prompted the country to vote to remain in 1975. The level of corruption and propaganda was disgusting. It will likely be worst this time.
People will of course also be voting for themselves and what benefits they prioritise. It is dog eat dog and to survive is to look out for ourselves.
Ultimately, my personal view is that any negative economic impact of leaving would be reversible. Remaining in a an undemocratic union, whose agenda of increased large scale control and oversight has been made perfectly clear, is not.
Things are not helped by how ill equipped we all generally are to truly make this decision. But education is clearly there to help you function within the system, with little interest in people understanding the system itself. We have our MPs but clearly they will deceive/lie/bend the truth to serve their own personal agendas. We can trust nothing they say.
Media likewise generally has it's own reasons to be shaping our decision. They too should be ignored.
It is worth looking into the actions which prompted the country to vote to remain in 1975. The level of corruption and propaganda was disgusting. It will likely be worst this time.
People will of course also be voting for themselves and what benefits they prioritise. It is dog eat dog and to survive is to look out for ourselves.
Ultimately, my personal view is that any negative economic impact of leaving would be reversible. Remaining in a an undemocratic union, whose agenda of increased large scale control and oversight has been made perfectly clear, is not.
In fact, of course, anti-EU feeling is strongest in areas with the lowest immigration and lowest in areas with the most immigration. This map shows UKIP support rather than anti-EU feeling directly but the two are closely linked:
(source)
UKIP are mostly made up of Conservative MPs and similar, albeit more right wing, policies. Most people in poor areas are more inclined to vote for Labour due to their Socialist policies, it doesn't mean that they're not affected the most by mass immigration
Soldato
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As we are spinning wheels on the ol' geo divide issue again, let me drop more interesting recent polling summary gruel into the mix. 
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/03/24/eu-referendum-provincial-england-versus-london-and/
The comments section is abuzz with delightful morsels, as usual. Have fun!
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/03/24/eu-referendum-provincial-england-versus-london-and/
The comments section is abuzz with delightful morsels, as usual. Have fun!
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