Are you really trying to paint UKIP as the leader of a movement? I think the right wing parties in several European countries would choose to differ.
Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (March Poll)
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Are you really trying to paint UKIP as the leader of a movement? I think the right wing parties in several European countries would choose to differ.
You didn't answer his question though. What makes you think a US/UK deal is going to be any more beneficial to us, the average joe, rather than benefiting corporations and multinationals, who have their lobbyist hooks firmly into both those governments?
The ECHR was drawn up by the Council of Europe after WWII. The Council of Europe's membership is far wider than the EU's membership. I think the only major country in Europe that isn't a member is Belarus.
Countries are free to ignore its rulings and the UK has done so on several occasions (e.g. giving prisoners the vote).
nonsense, there is a direct link in that it is a requirement of EU membership ergo leaving the EU makes it inherently easier as currently it is impossible
the more important point he is the security risk of unrestricted migration from within the EU, recent attacks have been carried out by EU citizens and among the current migrants are a whole load of potential new EU citizens
Yes it is undemocratic and it is to keep it from the public, because 100,000 special interest groups and lobbyists would rip any deal apart before it could be struck.
That said however, I'd be interested in creating a framework where such wide spread involvement in the process could be allowed - because democracy is good, and we should reflect the modern time as well as European history and culture.
So how about this - every special interest group registers their interest and appoints a representative (we'll call them a 'champion'). Every Monday the negotiating team publish their points for the week and the registered groups can agree or oppose them.
If two or more groups disagree their champions enter into combat in an appointed arena (perhaps it could rotate around Europe in big football stadiums?). To boost involvement the types of combat can be chosen by each champion and a popular phone vote for the wildcard 3rd battle.
This would all be televised of course. So far as 'populist politics' goes, it's far more palatable to me than ukip or the national front
I'd definitely watch that!
Corporate special interest groups are of course getting a lot of access, and there have been hundreds of closed-door meetings with big finance, technology, pharma, tobacco and telecoms companies. Almost seems like they've got a vested interest in the proposals...
Caporegime
It's worth noting how very, very British the European Convention of Human Rights is. It was written by British Lawyers and enshrines principles put forward by Britain and some of the major push behind it's adoption was driven by none other than Winston Churchill.
First of all the UK Government would be more beholden to the people of the UK (as was mentioned before), so if there was a clear public backlash (which i'm sure there would be if people knew more) we'd have a much better chance of repealing or at least changing the bits that are very controversial. Second our interests in the UK would be better represented, rather than having to cater to the interests of the EU as a whole.
Whether the UK could do a better job of negotiating this is a side issue really though, the issue is that it should be stopped, or at least the most controversial bits taken out. Various newspapers, economists and millions of people in Europe agree.
Caporegime
It's far more likely that we'll be targeted by home grown terrorists than anyone from the EU. It's also much more likely that we'll be targeted by home grown terrorists than by new migrants.
Also, it's worth emphasising how very mild the current terrorist threat to the EU is compared to what we dealt with for years. We should stop helping the terrorists by reacting so hysterically to it.
Caporegime
It's entirely relevant to the silly notion that the ECHR is something that is imposed on us. It's not; it's something we should take credit for.
They're unrelated in that they're independent bodies. Being a member of the EU means signing up to the ECHR but the same condition is attached to many treaties and agreements we've signed over the years.
Leaving the EU isn't going to change our obligations to the ECHR.
Does anything here actually think that allowing the EU referendum was a bad idea? because on the whole the people voting aren't educated to a high enough standard, in the subjects required in order to make a worthy decision?
I almost get the impression that it's a bit like allowing the public to vote on what the interest rate should be - the average voter doesn't have a clue about finance or economics, so how could they every make the right decision?
I almost get the impression that it's a bit like allowing the public to vote on what the interest rate should be - the average voter doesn't have a clue about finance or economics, so how could they every make the right decision?
Don
Mr Jack, that's a very very interesting graph. I figured that the world was much safer from terrorism these days than at any point in the last 50 years but that graph really puts it in perspective.
Soldato
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100% Out
Caporegime
Yeah, I had much the same reaction.
Soldato
I completely agree. I think there has been too much weight placed on ideals and the belief of what is fair rather than giving the decision to the most qualified to handle it. Economists are pretty split on both sides showing that the issue is not so simple, scientists mostly hold the view that stay in would be best, the military seems to be leaning on the view that staying would be best and businesses seem to be split depending on their size and industry they operate in. Foreign businesses who use the UK as a gateway to the EU are obviously for staying in but they can always relocated to Ireland or mainland Europe if the out vote goes through.
I think the main drive behind the average voter to stay in is immigration, more specifically illegal immigration, which realistically wont be effected very much. legal immigration wont see much change for quite a while, likely when all this migrant crisis fizzles out. Another main drive is the idea of 'sovereignty', as in taking back power for our government to wield. I feel several media outlets have really pushed the idea of a big evil EU which seems to spitefully disagree with the UK for the sake of it. With all the talk of incompetence, lack of faith and obviously dubious behaviour of our own members of government, i cant help but smirk when i hear the sudden rise in confidence people have in them when talking about reclaiming sovereignty.
Yes, it was a terrible decision made out of pure desperation.
But its not a financial or economic decision, its an idealogical/social decision.
Everyone spouting off about economic dooms day scenarios is missing the huge point that no one wants that ir benifits from it.
Money looks after itself, people say countries eill be spitefull to screw the uk, businesses wont ket them.
No one is going to forgoe the billions of whatever currency you like because some politicans had thier feathers ruffled.
Soldato
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^Quite.
I seems all the remainers can offer is the balance sheet, and even that's not convincing.
I seems all the remainers can offer is the balance sheet, and even that's not convincing.
You don't see countries like France and Germany stepping up their efforts to steal the financial centre of Europe away from Britain?
Given that they're already offering incentives to lure bankers over, if we're out of the eu and they can impose extra transaction fees on Britain it'll play exactly into their hands.
It's not a doomsday scenario or fearmongering either. There's every reason to expect them to push for something such as that. Will it have a major affect on us? Who knows.
Given that they're already offering incentives to lure bankers over, if we're out of the eu and they can impose extra transaction fees on Britain it'll play exactly into their hands.
It's not a doomsday scenario or fearmongering either. There's every reason to expect them to push for something such as that. Will it have a major affect on us? Who knows.
You dont see the EU stopping individual members having a race to the bottom to tempt in financial firms?
as theres countries that can do way more than France and Germany to make themselves attractive
you can't see the massive banks and financial institutions fighting against increased fees?
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