Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (March Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain a member of the European Union

    Votes: 400 43.3%

  • Leave the European Union

    Votes: 523 56.7%
  • Total voters
    923
  • Poll closed .
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Isn't the major argument for staying in the EU it will save jobs?

Seems the steel industry cannot be helped, can we be enlightened which industries that may be in trouble will be saved by our membership?

I think this is a reasonable question.
 
Conscript said:
If you think that leaving the EU will somehow have a huge effect on our immigration levels and vote to leave, I honestly think you might end up being disappointed.
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Immigration is a temporary problem, certainly not a 'once in a lifetime decision' sort of thing.
Sovereignty and democracy are red herrings really, we have some sort of a fudge of both, in or out of the eu.
Protectionism and jobs, again, due to the fudge of sovereignty imposed by organisations such as the UN and WTO (and a dose of capitalist realism), we can't, and won't do what some on the left or right say we would/could.


The real question for the referendum is, do you believe most of the peoples of Europe share a common culture and set of values, and are better off as a group fighting to defend those values in the world rather than isolated against more powerful countries and groups?

Frankly I'd say if the thought of a common currency and army makes you spew your tea, vote out, it's not for you. It's not about today's big crisis or nationalist chest beating, or at least it shouldn't be.
 
estebanrey said:
Canada have a free trade agreement with the EU without the 'free movement' clause.
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Great, and how does it compare to ours?

Oh, unfavourably...

These are not like for like agreements.

If you buy something from Canada you must pay import duty on it. If you buy something from Germany you do not. Not all free trade agreements are alike. Surely you realise this?
 
Dave M said:
Immigration is a temporary problem, certainly not a 'once in a lifetime decision' sort of thing.
Sovereignty and democracy are red herrings really, we have some sort of a fudge of both, in or out of the eu.
Protectionism and jobs, again, due to the fudge of sovereignty imposed by organisations such as the UN and WTO (and a dose of capitalist realism), we can't, and won't do what some on the left or right say we would/could.


The real question for the referendum is, do you believe most of the peoples of Europe share a common culture and set of values, and are better off as a group fighting to defend those values in the world rather than isolated against more powerful countries and groups?

Frankly I'd say if the thought of a common currency and army makes you spew your tea, vote out, it's not for you. It's not about today's big crisis or nationalist chest beating, or at least it shouldn't be.
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Absolutely. Which is why I think having a referendum and leaving the decision to a population who on the whole seem to be focused on such narrow and short-term issues, with little consideration for the long term impact leaving might have, could be a mistake :(
 
Conscript said:
Absolutely. Which is why I think having a referendum and leaving the decision to a population who on the whole seem to be focused on such narrow and short-term issues, with little consideration for the long term impact leaving might have, could be a mistake :(
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Hah, you think our political parties are any better on that score? ;)
 
Dave M said:
Hah, you think our political parties are any better on that score? ;)
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I think they are much better placed than I or indeed many people here are, with more access to the resources needed to make an informed choice, yes. It's certainly better than leaving it to people who may only be basing their decision on a knee jerk reaction to the latest mouth-frothing gutter press headline about immigrants, lack of sovereignty, dictatorship, blah blah.
 
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Conscript said:
I think they are much better placed than I or indeed many people here are, with more access to the resources needed to make an informed choice, yes. It's certainly better than leaving it to people who may only be basing their decision on a knee jerk reaction to the latest mouth-frothing gutter press headline about immigrants, lack of sovereignty, dictatorship, blah blah.
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Yes, certainly better informed, but more likely to take a long term view?
 
Dave M said:
Yes, certainly better informed, but more likely to take a long term view?
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I see looking to the long term as being part of making an informed choice.
What point are you trying to make, that the decision is indeed best left to the population?

We appear to be back and forthing asking whether it's best for the decision is best left to politicians with the best access to the resources and information to make an informed choice, or a population who are more interested in the long term but who ultimately might be making the decision based on a much narrower set of factors with more influence from certain sources.
 
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Moses said:
Okay, that's a starting point, but we need to flesh that out.
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No, we don’t. We’re not talking about specific laws, we’re talking about the UK’s ability to govern itself and act in its own interests without compromises with 27 other countries.

You said:
Moses said:
I'm asking what the mythical 'sovereignty argument' in the context of the EU referendum debate means...
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The argument is that in the EU our sovereignty is diminished due to:

Does European Law Override National Law?

Yes it does.
Is this stated in the Lisbon Treaty? Yes
Is this anything new? No.
...
What happens if they don´t?

If you join the EU, then part of that package means you are fundamentally obliged to take all appropriate measures, whether general or particular, to ensure fulfillment of the obligations arising out of a Treaty.

Equally, member states are fundamentally obliged to implement any laws agreed in Brussels, which means that it is up to governments and businesses to get the best deal they can when new acts are proposed by the Commission.

http://www.europeanlawmonitor.org/e...-does-european-law-override-national-law.html
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Conscript said:
I see looking to the long term as being part of making an informed choice.
What point are you trying to make, that the decision is indeed best left to the population?

We appear to be back and forthing asking whether it's best for the decision is best left to politicians with the best access to the resources and information to make an informed choice, or a population who are more interested in the long term but who ultimately might be making the decision based on a much narrower set of factors with more influence from certain sources.
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short termism in politics is ingrained and widespread, no less in our system than any other. It's a brave politician to make the right choice just because it's right.

My point is it's no worse when taken across the broad spread of voters - assuming a good turnout. Don't forget it's politicians that kicked all this fuss off due to nothing more than an internal ideological argument within one political party.

The worst thing for anyone now is a lack of engagement or turning voters off by nasty arguments. Whatever the result I'd like to see a turnout well north of 80%. If it's below 60% it's a farce and we deserve whatever comes to us.
 
Zethor said:
Your friends in London represent an insignificant minority. ~60% of the population of London have a different ethnicity, culture, often even main language.
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Ok but you just ignored the rest of my points about differing socio-economic demographics and political leanings. We aren't Spain or any other European country and what's good for them isn't neccessarily what we want, and if it is we can vote for a party to make it like that.
 
Conscript said:
I see looking to the long term as being part of making an informed choice.
What point are you trying to make, that the decision is indeed best left to the population?

We appear to be back and forthing asking whether it's best for the decision is best left to politicians with the best access to the resources and information to make an informed choice, or a population who are more interested in the long term but who ultimately might be making the decision based on a much narrower set of factors with more influence from certain sources.
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The amount of **** decisions governments have made in the past I wouldn't underestimate the public.
 
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