Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (March Poll)

[Danthus]

Of course they can own businesses, and it's not through any weird mechanism or exploit . They basically can't horribly distort markets through state aid, though.

That is the point I was making. I don't believe that the state can't own/run businesses while in the EU.

 

[GarethSouthgate]

You're the one who referred to laws which had been overturned! You introduced that point. You're the one who referred to things being imposed on us. You introduced that point. I then asked for examples and it seems you're unable to do so and only said those things because you were parroting from the 'dey took r jerbs' playbook.

The reason I asked for examples is because leaving the EU doesn't mean we're magically in control of everything... if we left the EU, many people claim we'd still be involved in free movement of goods and services... and if that was the case, in those areas, we'd still have to submit to EU law, but would have zero say in how the laws were drafted. That'd hardly be taking back sovereignty...

Do you understand? So please can you expand on your claims and tell us the laws which have been overturned you disagree with and which have been imposed on us you disagree with? Then what would our post-Brexit relationship with the EU be? Would be be in the EEA, for example?

Here's a positive example of the EU stepping in: http://www.itpro.co.uk/public-sector/26269/home-office-faces-eu-court-battle-over-snooper-s-charter

 

[Skunkworks]

.

/facepalm

You're just playing dumb now. I'm not talking about specific laws as is mentioned in the very post you quoted.

Maybe someone else has time to entertain this Castielesq stuff.

 

[Danthus]

Here's a positive example of the EU stepping in: http://www.itpro.co.uk/public-sector/26269/home-office-faces-eu-court-battle-over-snooper-s-charter

If we are relying on the EU to provide opposition to bad policy we have more issues than being part of the EU.

 

[kindai]

Here's a positive example of the EU stepping in: http://www.itpro.co.uk/public-sector/26269/home-office-faces-eu-court-battle-over-snooper-s-charter

Why is that good?

 

[Freakbro]

That is the point I was making. I don't believe that the state can't own/run businesses while in the EU.

Yea, but a Conservative government nationalising an industry? We've got more chance England winning Euro 2016 than that happening....especially one in the process of flogging everything off, including the kitchen sink!

 

[Danthus]

/facepalm

You're just playing dumb now. I'm not talking about specific laws as is mentioned in the very post you quoted.

Maybe someone else has time to entertain this Castielesq stuff.

He is correct though, you seemingly are unable or unwilling to back up your point.

 

[GarethSouthgate]

If we are relying on the EU to provide opposition to bad policy we have more issues than being part of the EU.

I think we do have more issues than being part of the EU.

Why is that good?

Because our government wanted to rush in a law that would impact pretty much everybody? A law which many people picked apart.

What would have happened if the EU wasn't there?

http://www.computerworlduk.com/security/draft-investigatory-powers-bill-what-you-need-know-3629116/

http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/snoopers-charter-investigatory-powers-bill

I think one of the biggest criticisms is that the law, in layman's terms, assumes everyone is guilty or may be guilty of something in the future so they want to effectively store all of your private data/browsing history.

 

[Skunkworks]

He is correct though, you seemingly are unable or unwilling to back up your point.

What is he right about?

 

[Danthus]

What is he right about?

Problem:
EU overriding laws we make in our own interested and replacing with laws that sort-of best fit a collective of very different countries that may be counter to our best interests.

Which laws?

 

[scorza]

Yea, but a Conservative government nationalising an industry? We've got more chance England winning Euro 2016 than that happening....especially one in the process of flogging everything off, including the kitchen sink!

If you don't want a Conservative government then don't vote for one - I didn't but acknowledge that the country as a whole did so accept that they have the right to inflict their usual pain and misery. What I don't want is for people like Jean-Claude Juncker, who no-one in the UK voted for, to be in a position of power over the people of the UK.

The EU debate is about much, much more than if you like the current government or not - in fact it's ironic because I heard on the radio this morning that the Conservative establishment are desperately trying to persuade Labour to mobilise their support while at the same time ignoring their own voters.

 

[scorza]

Which laws?

Freedom of movement?

 

[GarethSouthgate]

What I don't want is for people like Jean-Claude Juncker, who no-one in the UK voted for, to be in a position of power over the people of the UK.

Do you have any examples of him using his power over us?

 

[kindai]

I think one of the biggest criticisms is that the law, in layman's terms, assumes everyone is guilty or may be guilty of something in the future so they want to effectively store all of your private data/browsing history.

I support the bill, so explain to me why its a good thing the EU can decide over the British Government if it will be allowed or not?

Our country, our laws.... or... maybe not as it may seem.

 

[datalol-jack]

That is the point I was making. I don't believe that the state can't own/run businesses while in the EU.

Yes, we can. How else could we have bailed out RBS, and hold a majority stake in it? NHS? Royal Mail before privatisation was begun? Here's a run-down for Ireland, as another example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-sponsored_bodies_of_the_Republic_of_Ireland

Further:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_enterprise

Obviously for the details of what is considered common market distortion, where the red lines are, etc, one has to consult the Europa portal and the texts of the treaties people attempt to bash but rather often ignore.

Nonetheless, it's far from a straight-jacket the Out warriors believe it to be. But considering the state of play of Westminster politics, atm, I think talking of state renationalisation of anything is a bit silly. Neither Osborne nor BoJo nor Farage, for that matter, would commit to any such thing or advocate it, as much as they like to deploy the 'common man' routine.

 

[GarethSouthgate]

I support the bill, so explain to me why its a good thing the EU can decide over the British Government if it will be allowed or not?

Our country, our laws.... or... maybe not as it may seem.

I value my privacy so anyone who steps in to prevent the government from impacting it is worth their weight in gold to me.

My data, my privacy... or... not, it may seem.

 

[Skunkworks]

Which laws?

For about the fourth time, I have not been talking about speciifc laws, I'm talking about us giving the EU permission to place the interestes of the collective above that of our own.

Out of EU = We make the decisions in our best interest.
In the EU = They have the potential to make the decisions.

The latter is a reduction in sovereignty. Moses cannot bring himself to admit this, so he tries to muddy the waters with all the name a law stuff.

Sovereignty and how it will be affected by EU membership has been the subject, not specific laws.

 

[GarethSouthgate]

Out of EU = We make the decisions in our best interest.

Like stealing all my data? How is that in my best interest?

 

[Skunkworks]

So what would our relationship with the EU be? We wouldn't be part of the EEA? What effect would that have on our economy?

Before changing the subject, do you, or do you not, acknowledge our greater self determination outside of the EU?

 

[GarethSouthgate]

**** me, this is like a broken record! I'm almost tempted to vote to stay in just so I can lol at responses in here if the majority vote to stay in.