Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (March Poll)

[Tefal]

Well the current tariff on finished vehicles from the US to the EU is 10%...



https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...160/TTIP_and_the_US_Motor_Vehicles_Sector.pdf

And you said,



But now you're changing your tune...

Yes and without a tarrif the EU manufactures are just about comletative with those imports from outside the eu.

Given the uk could potentially negotiate a lower tarrif for those vehicales post exit (or keep them the same) adding a tarrif to the eu vehicles would bump them above thier competitors.

How am i chsnging my tune?

Im saying theexact same thing inwas then the eu countries wouldnt want tarrifs that make thier products uncometative in the uk market.


Thats shy we have tarrifs for places outside the eu to try and offset the low cost products they are able to produce

 

[Tefal]

Why would it cost us money?

By making steel more expensive?

Not really comparable we didnt artificaly raise the price of forgien finanical products to help the uk banks make s profit did we?

 

[datalol-jack]

Why would it cost us money?

We bailed out the bankers, which cost us a lot of money - why not do the same thing for steelworkers?

We have a Tory government, who would only pour in cash as a last resort: Is a collapse of a Tata factory enough to end the financial world as we know it? Can it crash the UK?

Still, from the latest on the story, we're currently putting the pressure on the current owners to stick by the workers and find a buyer for the plant; without ruling out more direct measures.

 

[Dark Light]

My take on it is that people who say they are going to vote to leave are more likely to vote and those who are undecided are more likely to vote to stay but considerably less likely to vote. So if leave is ahead or slightly behind then leave will get it.

 

[scorza]

By making steel more expensive?

Not really comparable we didnt artificaly raise the price of forgien finanical products to help the uk banks make s profit did we?

More expensive or the price it has always been? I don't feel like I've saved much money as a result of the steel price crash.

 

[Tefal]

On what grounds are you making that claim?

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statis...e_in_motor_cars#Contribution_of_Member_States
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/6760204/6-27032015-AP-EN.pdf

We are not the largest EU export market for cars or in general. Nor is the majority of EU cars made here. We are a service-based economy, with strong niches; these won't be enough in and of themselves to provide a stable economic outlook outside the EU.

Do you mean Ireland would miss us? They are already an ally, and have been bending over backwards to assist us in our negotiations; how can they do any more to fight our corner after we depart?

Isn't VW one of the largest car making groups in the world atm, with a robust manufacturing base on the continent, anyway? Meaning they won't have a particular need to intercede on our behalf, considering how little splash we make to their bottom line. Even for a popular brand like the Audi (part of VW), we only consume 9.8% of the total sold. Some negotiating boon that!

Just because prices may go up here post-Brexit, does not mean they will do so globally, and in the EU's actual largest export markets. It will be less of a factor still when TTIP goes online, and they smooth things over with China in the long-term.

A customer who buys 10% of your total output is a pretty major customer

 

[datalol-jack]

A customer who buys 10% of your total output is a pretty major customer

How major in the priority list? Delta was doing a Hannan performance, putting us front and centre of the queue -- we are not.

 

[Tefal]

We have a Tory government, who would only pour in cash as a last resort: Is a collapse of a Tata factory enough to end the financial world as we know it? Can it crash the UK?

Still, from the latest on the story, we're currently putting the pressure on the current owners to stick by the workers and find a buyer for the plant; without ruling out more direct measures.

The idea is they dont have to pour money in they can just do what the USA did and put a 200% plus tarrif on the cheap Chinese steel and so make it make sense for people to buy british steel thus giving the company the money it needs to survive.

 

[Tefal]

How major in the priority list? Delta was doing a Hannan performance, putting us front and centre of the queue -- we are not.

Major enough to break the company if they lose it?

For my company a 10% customer would be worth 100 billion euros

 

[Burnsy2023]

I think you'll find people do care about jobs, in fact it's one of the things they care the most about. How out of touch can you be?

Jobs like car production that requires cheap steel?

If we do lose steel jobs, it's a fairly low number. That does affect people in an acutely adverse way but not enough to change a government.

 

[datalol-jack]

The idea is they dont have to pour money in they can just do what the USA did and put a 200% plus tarrif on the cheap Chinese steel and so make it make sense for people to buy british steel thus giving the company the money it needs to survive.

Then why are we refusing to support the EU motion to raise said tariff whilst on the inside?

 

[StriderX]

Then why are we refusing to support the EU motion to raise said tariff whilst on the inside?

Because it doesn't change anything and annoys the Chinese...if you're going to annoy trade partners you might aswell make it actually worth it.

 

[datalol-jack]

Major enough to break the company if they lose it?

For my company a 10% customer would be worth 100 billion euros

That share would not be under any threat in its entirety should tariffs go up; inconvenient, sure. You also have to remember that VW is a large group, with enough reserves to restructure, should there be any great need to. Why force them to restructure away from us though?

 

[datalol-jack]

Because it doesn't change anything and annoys the Chinese...if you're going to annoy trade partners you might aswell make it actually worth it.

So why not make more of an input into the actual process, instead of grumbling in an internal referendum? Assuming of course our government finds its protectionist heart.

 

[scorza]

Jobs like car production that requires cheap steel?

If we do lose steel jobs, it's a fairly low number. That does affect people in an acutely adverse way but not enough to change a government.

On the news last night it said that the Port Talbot facility supports 25,000 jobs - in what's a pretty deprived area of the nation. I lived through Thatcher, I know the sort of devastation that results from the closure of a plant like that.

Let's not forget too that steel making is a pretty strategic industry - there are implications for the UK as a whole if we don't have a large steel manufacturing capability. Everyone else apart from the EU understands this which is why they're protecting their own industries.

 

[datalol-jack]

On the news last night it said that the Port Talbot facility supports 25,000 jobs - in what's a pretty deprived area of the nation. I lived through Thatcher, I know the sort of devastation that results from the closure of a plant like that.

Let's not forget too that steel making is a pretty strategic industry - there are implications for the UK as a whole if we don't have a large steel manufacturing capability. Everyone else apart from the EU understands this which is why they're protecting their own industries.

Okay, how can you promise anything to the workers without holding power in government? How is Brexit and the uncertainty around it going to help solve the situation? Neither BoJo nor Cameron are big on protectionism. Corbyn is a wildcard, with grand empty gestures like reopening of the pits to his platform, and is unlikely to win against either of the two. Who do propose will rise to challenge the status quo of our national politics?

What's the point of misdirected protest with nothing to back it up?

 

[Tefal]

Jobs like car production that requires cheap steel?

If we do lose steel jobs, it's a fairly low number. That does affect people in an acutely adverse way but not enough to change a government.

we need to maintain some level of steel industry though as its a strategic need.

 

[Tefal]

Then why are we refusing to support the EU motion to raise said tariff whilst on the inside?

i don't know. i imagine because our MEPs are a pile of incompetent cretins like farage who would rather have bad decisions for the uk they can nuse as publicity points than get good deals for the uk and make the eu look attractive?

 

[datalol-jack]

i don't know. i imagine because our MEPs are a pile of incompetent cretins like farage who would rather have bad decisions for the uk they can nuse as publicity points than get good deals for the uk and make the eu look attractive?

I can't argue with that.

 

[b0redj0rd]

Re Steel industry, worth considering.

Dave is in Lanzarote, Sajid Javid is on an ill-timed jolly Down Under and Jeremy Corbyn wants parliament recalled to debate the dying British steel industry. While cheaper Chinese imports may have forced prices down, British steel prices have risen £30 per tonne since Christmas, with EU prices nearly £50 higher than Chinese in November. The EU’s 37 failed anti-dumping measures are just a sideshow to the real problem facing the industry: excessive EU green taxes and carbon caps.

By pledging to cut carbon emissions by “at least 40%” in 2030, Brussels has forced energy companies into a spate of investments and divestments, causing chaos within the industry and sending electricity prices into the stratosphere. In the fracking-friendly USA, electricity costs just 7 pence per kilowatt hour – down 2% from last year. In China the cost of coal power has fallen by 2 pence. In Britain the average price per kilowatt hour for electricity last year was 13.9 pence – over 50% higher. As Kate Hoey says:

“The EU’s regulations on energy production are killing our steel industry. It is impossible for the UK to compete with non-EU countries like the US, where electricity costs half the price, and Norway, where energy is 25 per cent of the UK price. They unlike us are free from dogmatic, ineffective rules on energy sources.”
Even if Osborne wants to intervene, his hands are tied in any bailout situation by strict EU government aid laws. The UK had to grovel to EU bureaucrats for permission to off-set the new higher energy costs for the steel industry. Labour voters and Remain-backing unions like the GMB should face facts – the EU won’t save their members and will stop the government from doing so…

http://order-order.com/2016/03/30/eu-taxes-and-regulations-killed-british-steel-industry/