Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)

[Insanties_birth]

This wall of text consists of a point about letting Turkey, Albania and 'the other lot' in the EU, followed by mentioning rape scandals, immigrant criminals in the EU and the obligatory nod towards political correctness all of which somehow being connected to the problems of freedom of movement.

If we were face to face I would probably briefly smile at you, excuse myself and be on my way. Since that is not the case, I will be blunt: the point you try to make is a completely incoherent mess. The last sentence makes no sense whatsoever, it's as if you continuously typed what was going through your mind at the time without any attempt to build a syntactic structure.

wall of text = 3 small paragraphs nowadays? Sorry, I'll start having to edit my posts to more digestible sound bites so you don't lose track and get annoyed at some sort of anger inducing words. Yes, expansion of EU territory towards poorer regions with more likelihood to have these issues just like most smart people don't plug there fingers in there ears when they hear the two words romanian immigrant put together. Although it doesn't mean all immigrants are bad (or even a large proportion of the ones that have stereotypes) there is general consensus that some are worse than others and it's generally acknowledged that the expansion the EU is looking for is not the kind of expansion most brits would want. Freedom of movement is connected because the EU expands that to any country in there remit, that was already explained so your failure to follow it is not necessarily incoherence but rather your reading comprehension. Should I have took even more time to outline the connecitons how would I have avoided your rather scathing wall of text comment

Regardless of it being a thought in my head or not, it was just minor thoughts I felt like stating but the problem was that I was actually typing from a phone, inbetween being at work so any incoherence can be attributed to distraction but even so it sounds like a childish comment to make. Any parts you don't personally wish to validate or argue feel free to ignore but generally that entire post was in relation to EU expansion, migration and freedom of movement. It was all the 3 principles linked with how migration can effect us in the future. I'm sure it's not as eloquent as your childish insults or as coherent as ignorantly brandishing every brexit argument as ill thought out or crude but sadly I was working at the time and didn't particularly feel I needed to write anything of intellectual level to express a simple opinion on a forum. Sadly your validation never ranked high enough to elevate my personal need to scrutinise whether my post was too 'wall of texty' or whether it was too much of a 'thought in my head' to go on a simple internet forum post between working. I'll give you one thing though, you certainly hold a petty grudge in that regard but I'll not reply further to such things, we're here to debate the EU and not whether we have disagreemants on how to police the forum posters.

 

[Mulder]

What did I tell you about using the first Google link, which happens to be an opinion piece?

An independent study commissioned by the Norwegian Government in 2012 calculated that, in return for its access to the EU market, Norway has had to incorporate approximately three-quarters of all EU laws into its own domestic legislation.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa..._the_UK_outside_the_EU_Accessible.pdf#page=20

What did I tell you about believing everything our (biased) Government tells you? Presumably you also think the Treasury report was "spot on" and not based at all on any kind of agenda. This guy keeps it simple, rather than deliberately using loads of complex maths so people can't follow it.

Fullfact says 28% is a more realistic figure if you include all laws, not just directives, here. Wikipedia puts the number at 21%, the "Norweigan No Campaign" put the figure at 9% as below.

This comes from the Norwegian No campaign and is based on a study by Morten Harper that, based on a Eur-Lex search, compared all EU Directives, Regulations and legislative acts (a depressing 52,183 from 2000-2013) with the number enacted in the EEA agreement – 4,724. Making the proportion of EU legislative enacted in Norway 9.05%.

Whatever the figure, there's no denying that outside of the EU we would have to enact less EU regulation/law/red tape than we currently do.

Expand your remit dude, the Government is not a reliable enough source.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Some of the EU regulations and red tape are, to be fair, pretty good though.

 

[datalol-jack]

Some of the EU regulations and red tape are, to be fair, pretty good though.

One man's safeguard is another man's "omgerd they're taking freedoms away... from my rather shady business".

 

[Zethor]

What did I tell you about believing everything our (biased) Government tells you? Presumably you also think the Treasury report was "spot on" and not based at all on any kind of agenda. This guy keeps it simple, rather than deliberately using loads of complex maths so people can't follow it.

Fullfact says 28% is a more realistic figure if you include all laws, not just directives, here. Wikipedia puts the number at 21%, the "Norweigan No Campaign" put the figure at 9% as below.



Whatever the figure, there's no denying that outside of the EU we would have to enact less EU regulation/law/red tape than we currently do.

Expand your remit dude, the Government is not a reliable enough source.

The FullFact conclusion is "Leaving the numbers aside, the overall point the Outside and Inside report makes is that the EU has a great deal of influence over what Norway does.".

Norway has open borders because the EU requires it and its laws are influenced significantly by the EU, yet it has no voice and no votes in it. That is not a good deal for the UK as ending the open borders policy and 'winning back our sovereignty' are the main arguments for Brexit.

 

[Nate--IRL--]

But the UK will get all these benefits without these restrictions upon exit, surely?

Something to do with buying a lot of BMWs or something?

Nate

 

[datalol-jack]

But the UK will get all these benefits without these restrictions upon exit, surely?

Something to do with buying a lot of BMWs or something?

Nate

 

[adam cool dude]

The FullFact conclusion is "Leaving the numbers aside, the overall point the Outside and Inside report makes is that the EU has a great deal of influence over what Norway does.".

Norway has open borders because the EU requires it and its laws are influenced significantly by the EU, yet it has no voice and no votes in it. That is not a good deal for the UK as ending the open borders policy and 'winning back our sovereignty' are the main arguments for Brexit.

That is true if nothing changes after we exit the EU. Everything is on the presumption that the EU will remain the same if we exit.

 

[datalol-jack]

That is true if nothing changes after we exit the EU. Everything is on the presumption that the EU will remain the same if we exit.

Not everyone agrees. IDS quite literally boasts of voting out to, I kid you not, "make Britain great again".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...uncan-smith-interview--a-vote-to-leave-on-ju/

 

[Mulder]

The FullFact conclusion is "Leaving the numbers aside, the overall point the Outside and Inside report makes is that the EU has a great deal of influence over what Norway does.".

That's FullFact's conclusion on one report, the same report you linked to earlier. You've conveniently ignored the other two reports that put the figure at 28% and 9%. The report also talks about the Swiss option, and says "the Swiss system means that Switzerland doesn’t formally lack control over its own laws."

Norway has open borders because the EU requires it and its laws are influenced significantly by the EU, yet it has no voice and no votes in it. That is not a good deal for the UK as ending the open borders policy and 'winning back our sovereignty' are the main arguments for Brexit.

Funny how the remain camp always seems to bring up open borders, I didn't realise it was such a hot topic for you. I've already said for me it's not at the top of the reasons I want to leave, but anyway. Yes Norway/Switzerland have open borders (at least you admit that's what they are). The Swiss have been arguing with the EU about that since their referendum though, and want to restrict it. Then there's the migration crisis of course, with many countries already ignoring Schengen and putting up fences. I think there's an acceptance it can't go on under the current system. Against this context I don't see why we couldn't have a negotiation with the EU re free movement of people.

 

[Zethor]

That's FullFact's conclusion on one report, the same report you linked to earlier. You've conveniently ignored the other two reports that put the figure at 28% and 9%. The report also talks about the Swiss option, and says "the Swiss system means that Switzerland doesn’t formally lack control over its own laws."

No it's not, it's the final conclusion on the subject. The 28% is a different interpretation (directives vs all laws) and the 9% is wrong because it takes into account repelled laws. There are just 2 reports, 1 independent (3/4 and 28% figures) and one campaign report (9%). Read it again.

Funny how the remain camp always seems to bring up open borders, I didn't realise it was such a hot topic for you. I've already said for me it's not at the top of the reasons I want to leave, but anyway. Yes Norway/Switzerland have open borders (at least you admit that's what they are). The Swiss have been arguing with the EU about that since their referendum though, and want to restrict it. Then there's the migration crisis of course, with many countries already ignoring Schengen and putting up fences. I think there's an acceptance it can't go on under the current system. Against this context I don't see why we couldn't have a negotiation with the EU re free movement of people.

Free movement is not negotiable if you want access to the single market. It may not be one of the hot topics for you but it generally is the most important for Brexit supporters, followed by sovereignty.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...eave-campaign-most-likely-to-win-in-June.html

You are going off topic again with Schengen and the migration crisis.

 

[Tefal]

An interesting question if britian leaves what do people think will happen to the EU?

5n 10, 20 years down the line?

 

[Caged]

5 years - sunshine every day
10 years - sunshine *and* rainbows
20 years - all the above also roads paved with gold

 

[Randomface74]

An interesting question if britian leaves what do people think will happen to the EU?

5n 10, 20 years down the line?

It collapses, same as if we stay.

 

[Safetytrousers]

It collapses, same as if we stay.

Then we may as well stay and then everyone will get their way.

 

[Randomface74]

You want to stay in something that will collapse?

 

[cainer]

5 years, EU takes on more eastern/south eastern countrys
10 years, Russia decides they want their Soviet countrys back
15 years, everyones dead

 

[Safetytrousers]

You want to stay in something that will collapse?

Well, I would like to stay in fact, and I'd like your powers of precognition.
And as far as I know there is nothing to stop there being another referendum to leave should the situation warrant it. A verdict to stay now does not bind the country to stick it out to the bitter end if a process of collapse is too much to bear.

 

[Insanties_birth]

The FullFact conclusion is "Leaving the numbers aside, the overall point the Outside and Inside report makes is that the EU has a great deal of influence over what Norway does.".

Norway has open borders because the EU requires it and its laws are influenced significantly by the EU, yet it has no voice and no votes in it. That is not a good deal for the UK as ending the open borders policy and 'winning back our sovereignty' are the main arguments for Brexit.

As far as I'm aware any issue that effects EFTA members does have them have some form of influence. Maybe not a vote on the subject but they do get to take part in the decision shaping process so that's hardly no voice and no influence. Any major issues could still be raised and in the case of EFTA members they are opted out to some policies anyway so some stuff that are brought forward we'd have no say but no need to have a say but what we do have a say on would be what effects us.

http://www.efta.int/eea/decision-shaping

 

[ReltonBFD]

5 years - Greece Bailout 3, Denmark having membership referendum, Serious cuts to EU budget, Smaller economies surrender fiscal control.

10 years - World ends, plagues of locusts, blood rain. How did the world function before the EU