Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain a member of the European Union

    Votes: 522 41.6%
  • Leave the European Union

    Votes: 733 58.4%

  • Total voters
    1,255
  • Poll closed .
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Caporegime
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Great speech by Daniel Hannan


Ah yes, Daniel Hannan: the Eurocrat immigrant with the worst attendance record of all Tory MEPs, who spends his time railing against Brussels while gorging himself on taxpayers' money.

His base pre-tax salary is £80,000 plus pension and entitlements. His own party wants a double referendum on the Brexit, so he's not really committed to the Leave campaign.

If Hannan was a man of his word, he'd join UKIP and be done with it. But no, the Brussels gravy train is just too good to give up.
 
Sgarrista
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Ah yes, Daniel Hannan: the Eurocrat immigrant with the worst attendance record of all Tory MEPs, who spends his time railing against Brussels while gorging himself on taxpayers' money.

His base pre-tax salary is £80,000 plus pension and entitlements. His own party wants a double referendum on the Brexit, so he's not really committed to the Leave campaign.

If Hannan was a man of his word, he'd join UKIP and be done with it. But no, the Brussels gravy train is just too good to give up.


So the only counter argument you have to his very good speech is to try and discredit him?

Nice try.
 
Associate
Joined
17 Sep 2010
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1,762
In, while the EU is not perfect, we know exactly what remaining in involves.
What's that?
That our childrens children, will ONLY be taught to be European and not English, Scottish and Welsh?
Knowing who we are is more important than any ****** trade deals that only benefits our governments.
 
Soldato
Joined
7 Mar 2011
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6,859
Location
Oldham, Lancashire
What's that?
That our childrens children, will ONLY be taught to be European and not English, Scottish and Welsh?
Knowing who we are is more important than any ****** trade deals that only benefits our governments.

There is zero chance of that happening. The French don't want to forget they are French, the Spanish don't want to forget they are Spanish.

Feel more European, yes, forget they're roots? Not going to happen.
 
Soldato
Joined
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Location
Gloucester
There is zero chance of that happening. The French don't want to forget they are French, the Spanish don't want to forget they are Spanish.

Feel more European, yes, forget they're roots? Not going to happen.

I'm sure EU's cultural Marxism has different ideas.
 
Soldato
Joined
12 Sep 2012
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11,696
Location
Surrey
Why do people think that mainland countries think of themselves as European first and of their own country second :rolleyes:. Seems to me what some people hold as most important (thinking of themselves as British) is not only irrelevant to being in or out of the EU, it is probably the stupidest reason to base the choice of being in or out on.
 
Caporegime
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Location
Nordfriesland, Germany
His base pre-tax salary is £80,000 plus pension and entitlements. His own party wants a double referendum on the Brexit, so he's not really committed to the Leave campaign.

If Hannan was a man of his word, he'd join UKIP and be done with it. But no, the Brussels gravy train is just too good to give up.

Given that UKIP have many more MEPs than they have MPs, all of whom are paid the usual MEP salary, how does joining UKIP help? And isn't campaigning for Brexit even though it would mean he would lose his job more of a recommendation than a criticism?

Weird post, man, weird post.
 
Soldato
Joined
14 Dec 2011
Posts
5,703
Yes, do we really want to relax rules within the EU just to appease America?

Definitely not, I knew that the French would eventually fight against ttip, if they can get an anti ttip head of steam and crush it I'm back in as the current so called British tories are pushing ttip in europe as if they'd been bribed to do it.
 
Soldato
Joined
23 Apr 2004
Posts
8,410
Location
In the Gym
Given that UKIP have many more MEPs than they have MPs, all of whom are paid the usual MEP salary, how does joining UKIP help? And isn't campaigning for Brexit even though it would mean he would lose his job more of a recommendation than a criticism?

Weird post, man, weird post.

Because Farage has said himself that his dream is to see all MEPs out of a job or words to that effect. Martyrs for the cause.

Losing a job that pays £100's of thousands to save billions. Sounds noble and on one regard quite altruistic
 
Soldato
Joined
28 Jan 2008
Posts
6,070
Location
Manchester
What's that?
That our childrens children, will ONLY be taught to be European and not English, Scottish and Welsh?
Knowing who we are is more important than any ****** trade deals that only benefits our governments.

I'd be quite happy if all the people around the world were taught that they are all the same and come from the same place called the Earth.

Other than for sport rivalries there's no need to differentiate where a person comes from.
 
Soldato
Joined
1 Mar 2010
Posts
6,306
Same Hannan who dreams of Hong Kong but really wants us to be like Norway, without the oil and the social democracy to boot, because it "beats the EU"? :D

Let's post the full debate, and not just the bits that we like, shall we?

Since Brexiters have a paranoia over official sources and Remainers talking to them about their favourite politicians, below is a compendium of fullfact entries pertinent to Daniel Hannan, specifically, and the kind of loose mental gymnastics he enjoys doing. Sometimes he homes in on something like what he is claiming, often not.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-norway/
https://fullfact.org/europe/norway-switzerland-eu-laws/
https://fullfact.org/europe/14-aprils-bbc-question-time-factchecked/
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-has-shrunk-percentage-world-economy/
https://fullfact.org/europe/partner-visas-and-eu/
https://fullfact.org/europe/did-eu-misspend-enough-money-build-10-new-hospitals/
https://fullfact.org/economy/do-families-spend-more-taxes-they-do-housing-energy-and-food-combined/

The common politician's fallacy about money and hospitals makes me laugh (this is on his theme of waste). Though I suppose most people have gold-fished away our relative waste and accounting error ratios by now?

But that fallacy never really made sense: money earmarked for specific public projects here and in the EU cannot be just reclaimed and pumped into infrastructure instead, especially on imaginary "average hospitals", without demand for them, the staff (hello JD contracts) and with other spending priorities trumping them. Moreover, we fund hospital projects via PFI hybrid schemes (yes, including the one Hannan often uses for reference), which have come under Treasury Select Committee, NAO and OBR scrutiny, and may not be the magic, public money saving tree they were ought to be, to put it mildly.

In addition, to put this innefficiency dog to rest for good -- the EU budget doesn't run a deficit nor accumulates debt for its member states; the budgetary rules and enforcement is tightening, not relaxing. The UK's own rule fiddling, waste and scandals make the reclamation argument also rather moot, since you'd be arguing for a transfer of money to -- presumably from the infinitely large saving on our EU budget contribution -- a larger, less efficient public service body, which notably has a more complex and less transparent relationship with the private sector (you cannot vote out bad spending in PFI projects or disasters like the UC roll-out; the Civil Service is unelected also, and the local government powers are increasingly being concentrated in either private or central government hands, from mayors to academy trusts interacting directly with the private sector; and unseating unpopular governments under FPTP, or just getting a minister to resign, is a taller order than most people realise); and under the proposed EEA model, said "reclamation" cannot even get off the ground, pricesly because of the need to pay our membership fee to participate in the common market. Moreover removing ourselves from having a say on the EU budget in future years, is a rather self-defeating act for those crying out for either budget cuts at EU level, better rules or more/less spending on particular areas. Having an 'informal chat' isn't the same as having a budget veto.

In light of the current economic forecasts of Brexit, EU budget cuts, Obama's intervention and actual rebate figures being available, it all falls apart for him. Hence why you will be hearing more on immigration than the economy from Vote Leave.

Most of the debate was old hat, but if you've got more questions, you can send them in to FullFact directly via site, twitter, fb, etc.
 
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